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 FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)

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Tattycoram
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:11 pm

chaosbladeuk wrote:

I will say my final piece. To get rid of scammers is not album or lend your cards to anyone. Scammers are smart because they play "this card" literally to target players. If you don't fall for it, they have nothing to work with it. I don't know how I can make it anymore simpler...

I feel like this is going in circles and may need this thread locked before the stupidity continues.  

I think this misses the point a little. The point isn't how an individual can protect him/herself from being scammed - that answer is already pretty obvious. But rather, can the company alter or refine the mechanisms in the game that allow others to be scammed (those who do not read this forum, perhaps are new, or for whatever reason susceptible to being tricked).

These two things are true and I think we all agree on them:
1) We should assume every trade is permanent, and so if you are doing a trade that you think is not permanent, get proper collateral in case you are wrong.
2) We should spread this message and educate the masses of the game as best we can.

But I think we all agree that those two alone, though probably the most important, don't get us to 100%.  Not only do they not get us to 100% but in fact scamming in this game seems pretty rampant.

So this thread is not arguing with those two facts. This thread is about can we add a third tool to our arsenal.  Can we also explore a way to make the game mechanisms harder for scammers to exploit, without harming gameplay or profits of the game.

If the specific idea of a lending-trade-option isn't the right answer then let's engage in that discussion, and perhaps a way to refine this idea or maybe better ideas might come out.

It is not an either-or scenario. We can all agree on and do 1) and 2) yet still explore a third tactic.
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chaosbladeuk
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:27 pm

I would so laugh if SS did listen to us and locked trading permanently. That would stop scamming full stop and everyone's album dreams would be shattered. We know what they are capable of; why push an agenda which clearly doesn't benefit them?

I am not trying to be a wet blanket in this discussion. A third way that doesn't really benefit anyone than those who can't really afford to get every card (a large but unprofitable demographic in SS's eyes) will not change because we asked them to.

If you spent thousand of $$$ and something in the game has screwed you over (I refer to Xmas event and possibly the change for Mandragora) then I can totally understand the need to complain en-masse to the creators.

What I can see in this thread is just a bunch of people who obviously believe albuming should be risk free but by doing so makes albuming even more pointless.

One suggestion could be that you can "trade" your album. You pay the trader a fee and they will populate your album with your missing cards. Good idea? Trouble is albuming then becomes rather pointless and someone who albums all the cards can be a dick and not trade their album and even if they did you can then do the same with other people.

There cannot be a middle ground that will benefit both sides. The system is fine for its intended purpose.

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LuziMiazawa
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:41 pm

Well, all I will and can say to this: I'm on a another trading site and it has for sure less mods taking care of the game then Fanta does, they've for sure enough, and they care about scamms and guess what? The scamming rate is LOW, because the Mods are doing something if that happens. Neutral

If they'd take auctions, it'd decrease for sure the rate of scamming since ppl will be more afraid to scam others, because they'd know SS/Mobage would do something. It's that easy. There'd be still scammers, but far less then before.

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There's a chatbox on the forums. It's well hidden. If you scroll down on the start page, you'll see it.
Any scammer IDs for me? Pass them over to me.
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thebluebox0



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:18 pm

This is just one idea. Our goal is to get Silicon Studios away from the trade at own risk policy, to get them to think about how scamming hurts game play and drives customers away. If we didn't offer at least one possible solution, we would just be whining. They may not implement this idea (after tweaking it a bit to suit their profitability), but at least they will hear that we want options and want them to be active in the issue rather than passive. It is one idea for them to explore. They may come up with something different and better. We just want them to think.

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KuroStar
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:35 pm

Colaleon wrote:
Albumming is pointless. Nobody ever opens their album and thinks "let's browse through all 736 of my albummed cards", do they? :S
I guess I'm the only one.

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ShiKabuki



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:00 am

This is my opinion.

All scamming is based on money. How? Very simple.
This game is more like Wallstreet instead of a fun innocent game.

Scammer 1:
Free player frustrated by low growing because Fantasica is dominated by paid players like events, 7*'s and series. So because they want good units they find tricks to scam with album, loaning and ambrosia.

Scammer 2:
More a cyber criminal. Trying to make a living by using trading forums like Neoseeker. Their main goal is to get money. They scam on many levels.

This is my solution for SS:

First hunt and try to close all the external trading forums like Neoseeker so ppl can't buy and sell the stuff for real money. Second make a trade centre and a gift option like on Blood Brothers. Third is paying attention on the players and game instead of only paying attention on their income results and business.
We are the ones that keep this game alive.

I think this action of sending mails is a good start to wake SS up.
And yes, ofcourse is it always the responsibility of the player it self but also the responsibility of SS. When I started Fanta I seriously didn't know what the term scammers/scamming was or what it meant and the dangers. I didn't grow up with online gaming :$
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Belhyde
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:27 am

KuroStar wrote:
Colaleon wrote:
Albumming is pointless. Nobody ever opens their album and thinks "let's browse through all 736 of my albummed cards", do they? :S
I guess I'm the only one.
No, I do it too.
Though I only browse my monster (girl) card...

@ShiKabuki:
Sadly, scam doesn't exist only in online game though...
<- Victim of real life scam by so-called friend acquaintance
<- Child and also Nephew of someone with real life experience in getting scammed in business
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joeladams20
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:20 pm



Dear Fanta players,

Please stop albuming!  This will only lead to potential heartache.

If you need pictures of the cards you don't have, here is my suggestion:

Phase 1. COLLECT card images of fanta girls in UNDERPANTS via internet
Phase 2. ?
Phase 3. PROFIT
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thebluebox0



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:57 pm

Today is FRIDAY.

Send emails if you wish to participate
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abuqasar
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:06 am

joeladams20 wrote:


Dear Fanta players,

Please stop albuming!  This will only lead to potential heartache.

If you need pictures of the cards you don't have, here is my suggestion:

Phase 1. COLLECT card images of fanta girls in UNDERPANTS via internet
Phase 2. ?
Phase 3. PROFIT
lol
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Youarenotperfect



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:29 am

cliffbiram wrote:
I wish you well in this, but honestly, there are FAR bigger things to petition for.

Top of my list, a bazaar, like Rage of Bahamut.  We desperately need a better method to buy and trade.

The Bazaar in Rage of Bahamut destroyed the economy by people under cutting each other. etc.
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Kharistos
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:14 am

Well the bazaar in ROB is great compared to whatever sh1te we get in Fantasica, it eliminates pple posting absurd prices. With a large enough amount of players the market will regulate itself.
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cliffbiram
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:58 pm

Youarenotperfect wrote:
cliffbiram wrote:
I wish you well in this, but honestly, there are FAR bigger things to petition for.

Top of my list, a bazaar, like Rage of Bahamut.  We desperately need a better method to buy and trade.

The Bazaar in Rage of Bahamut destroyed the economy by people under cutting each other. etc.
Then the Bazaar didn't destroy the economy, it means that it removed a barrier to make trades, and then people did what they always do...

Undercutting happens in real life too.  Building places of commerce did not create that.  It happens in any trading invironment.  If it's true undercutting then that person runs the risk of losing out on possible profit.  It's all part of the tading game my friend.  If the item is rare enough, or wanted enough, the price will stay high.  If not, well, it was overpriced to begin with. If it's real undercutting, then other players will be watching the low prices, buy low, and then flip for a profit. That's what keeps the prices where they naturally should fall.

The problem with Fanta right now is there is no centralized place of commerce.  You have to be a door to door salesman.  Buyers can't find sellers and sellers can't find buyers very easily at all.  That's a problem.

I don't know the history of Bahamut, but I do understand the concept of an Auction House very well, and all an Auction House or Bazaar does is create a centralized location for buyers and sellers to come together.  That facilitates the free flow of goods and exchange.  That creates an economy.  It doesn't destroy it.
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abuqasar
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:54 am

cliffbiram wrote:
Youarenotperfect wrote:
cliffbiram wrote:
I wish you well in this, but honestly, there are FAR bigger things to petition for.

Top of my list, a bazaar, like Rage of Bahamut.  We desperately need a better method to buy and trade.

The Bazaar in Rage of Bahamut destroyed the economy by people under cutting each other. etc.
Then the Bazaar didn't destroy the economy, it means that it removed a barrier to make trades, and then people did what they always do...

Undercutting happens in real life too.  Building places of commerce did not create that.  It happens in any trading invironment.  If it's true undercutting then that person runs the risk of losing out on possible profit.  It's all part of the tading game my friend.  If the item is rare enough, or wanted enough, the price will stay high.  If not, well, it was overpriced to begin with.  If it's real undercutting, then other players will be watching the low prices, buy low, and then flip for a profit.  That's what keeps the prices where they naturally should fall.

The problem with Fanta right now is there is no centralized place of commerce.  You have to be a door to door salesman.  Buyers can't find sellers and sellers can't find buyers very easily at all.  That's a problem.

I don't know the history of Bahamut, but I do understand the concept of an Auction House very well, and all an Auction House or Bazaar does is create a centralized location for buyers and sellers to come together.  That facilitates the free flow of goods and exchange.  That creates an economy.  It doesn't destroy it.
^ this
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Tattycoram
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:43 am

I agree with cliff and abuq's analysis of a trading market of some sort.  In a way we are already doing something along these lines this ourselves in FantasiTrade (though it isn't an auction format)  Seems like it would be nice to have something along these lines embedded in the game so that every player could easily find out about it and participate without leaving the game.

I played Order and Chaos for several months last year (haven't played in almost a year) and I liked some aspects of the auction house there.  
* You could find items you wanted and see all of the prices (sort by price or by newly listed, etc)
* In order to try to disincentive people from posting too many crazy high or low prices that wouldn't sell (market manipulation), every posting cost a little money regardless of whether it sold or not.
* Postings were time limited to help keep prices fresh and current and inventory lists from being too long (I think you had a choice of 12 hours, 24 hours, or 48 hours, we might want something a little longer for Fantascia)
* If you wanted to buy, you could either bid, and then highest bid at the end of the time period won and the transaction happened even if you were both offline.  (Your money would be "held" until you were either outbid - and then it was returned to you - or you bought the item in which case the item was sent to you.)
* If the buyer chose to offer a "buy it now" option, you could just click "buy" and pay your money and the transaction happened right at that moment, whether the other person was online or not, so nothing relied on buyer-seller being online at the same time. (Seller would get a notification and the money in their inbox waiting for them to log back in)

Obviously in a TCG there would have to be a way of contacting each other to also offer trades but for pure TE buys/sells this is an OK model.  (Perhaps in Fanta there could be a TE price side of an auction house similar to the OAC model, and a "contact me to trade" side similar to the FantasiTrade model)

Anyway just wanted to throw my two cents in to support this idea, that it can work and would only help, as cliff points out, cut down on the "door to door salesman" requirement that currently exists in Fanta.
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thebluebox0



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:17 pm

So, the idea of a centralized trading center seems very popular. Within the clan chat, the idea of a lending system to allow safe albuming was most popular measure for stopping scamming. A centralized trading center was a close second.

I cannot promise that I will get it done by this Friday, but I will revise the email to include both ideas as soon as possible. Thank you all for the valuable input.

Blue
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thebluebox0



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:57 pm

Just a bump to remind people that Friday is coming
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thebluebox0



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:05 pm

It's Friday. Send the email in.
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lightgod89



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:07 am

Scammers these days are shameless and proud of their loot. I've met a few of them in my journey in Fanta that makes me wanna quit. Mobage and Silicon are not doing enough to provide a safe environment and instead of the brave history, a trade history should replace it. Utterly useless to have a braved history.

Moral of the story, no album no scam.
I've always let my close allies album my units and even lend them my 6* & 7* without any issues. Delete those you cannot trust and only add allies u can trust or know.

I've personally encounter many shameless scammers that ask for 'proof' of scams which i can easily provide by no actions can be taken against them. LOL.

Be smart, trade smart and be careful of stinky names!

All the best!
Regards
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cliffbiram
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:20 pm

lightgod89 wrote:
Scammers these days are shameless and proud of their loot. I've met a few of them in my journey in Fanta that makes me wanna quit. Mobage and Silicon are not doing enough to provide a safe environment and instead of the brave history, a trade history should replace it. Utterly useless to have a braved history.

Moral of the story, no album no scam.
I've always let my close allies album my units and even lend them my 6* & 7* without any issues. Delete those you cannot trust and only add allies u can trust or know.

I've personally encounter many shameless scammers that ask for 'proof' of scams which i can easily provide by no actions can be taken against them. LOL.

Be smart, trade smart and be careful of stinky names!

All the best!
Regards
Well said.
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TWD



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:09 am

I just recently started Fanta and I just read this topic today and I am amazed that there isn't an in game bazaar system set up. I just recently retired from Rage of Bahamut (just geting too expensive). They did have a very well designed bazaar which allows you to post a card for a combination of different items including it's version of Luna, TE, Pot, and /or other cards. It would be even easier to implement here since all cards are just leveled instead of leveled and evolved like in Rage. Perhaps the cards could be posted and have a function to search for level of card or all/any. Something I didn't see up anyway was a list of scammers. It seems like there should be a list with victims of said scammers supplying screenshots of the scamming or scamming conversations. Just my take on the situation.
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Alzahar
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:59 am

lightgod89 wrote:
Scammers these days are shameless and proud of their loot. I've met a few of them in my journey in Fanta that makes me wanna quit. Mobage and Silicon are not doing enough to provide a safe environment and instead of the brave history, a trade history should replace it. Utterly useless to have a braved history.

Moral of the story, no album no scam.
I've always let my close allies album my units and even lend them my 6* & 7* without any issues. Delete those you cannot trust and only add allies u can trust or know.

I've personally encounter many shameless scammers that ask for 'proof' of scams which i can easily provide by no actions can be taken against them. LOL.

Be smart, trade smart and be careful of stinky names!

All the best!
Regards
Hear, hear! We need to album only for allies we know and trust for a while, (and there should still be collateral). That can't happen generally with units like 7*s for a lot of people, but with some more precautions we should be able to eliminate a few of the losses of so many cards to thieves.
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LuziMiazawa
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:12 am

Tomorrow I can do it again~ DON'T FORGET IT, LIKE I DID LAST WEEK.

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There's a chatbox on the forums. It's well hidden. If you scroll down on the start page, you'll see it.
Any scammer IDs for me? Pass them over to me.
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thebluebox0



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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:54 am

It is Friday. I have been helping my husband rebuild the roof on the back porch this week and forgot to update the email message. I am going to go edit it now. Please give me about 30 minutes to rework it then start sending the emails in.

Thanks,
TBB
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xfalconhunterx
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PostSubject: Re: FUSS AT FANTA FRIDAY (until they stop scammers)    Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:45 am

I'm not sure I understand the point of this topic.

The rules and reminders throughout the system advise against trading with people you don't know. Additionally, trading for the exclusive purpose of completing an album is neat and all, but isn't really relevant in overall gameplay terms. As far as Fanta cares, if you want to complete your album, you have to collect the cards. To do that, you have to trade, play, and purchase as you go.

The model is built to reward the people that fund Silicon Studios/Fanta Team. From a developer standpoint, why would they take steps to change anything that follows their already established business model?

1) If you commit to a trade, that's between you and the other person. Fanta/SS has no bearing on that. Complaining to Fanta when you complete a trade because the trade isn't immediately returned is on you and the other party. As far as F/SS is concerned, the transaction is complete - your offer for their offer - you both clicked "Confirm".

2) Any type of temp trading undermines the entire model of the game. Like it or not, it's a pay-to-play game. That payment comes in the form of your time invested, your rewards for that time invested, the money spent to increase your performance, and the free marketing that comes from a reward structure for social media sharing. It's great that you want to complete an album, but the game is designed in a way to promote 1 way trading, event participation, and purchases. "Lending" cards is repeatedly advised against because Fanta can't and won't do anything about a completed transaction (nor should they.)

3) With all of the potential for cheat-to-pay players, I think F/SS has more important things to deal with (along with localization and debugging.) The better course of action is to ask F/SS to crackdown on hacking loopholes in tandem with Mobage to reduce the number of backdoor MobaCoin hacks that exist and those that use them. (Remember, you can change Fanta data and it's easier to detect and penalize, but if you're using a tool to change the amount of MobaCoin outside of the app, how would Fanta/SS know?)

I like this game, and I choose my investments carefully, but complaining to F/SS because you and another person traded a couple of cards and now they won't trade them back seems like a form of "buyer beware" and not the fault of the developers.
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