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 Attack Speed

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Blargod
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Join date : 2012-09-29
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:23 am

aquCHAOS wrote:
clocksprocket wrote:
I guess my next question is, where can I find all the chinese card art? I'm sure they have their own website?

monster album

units album

Here it is Smile

There are a lot of players picture in monster album though affraid

And I think both the albums are not complete ...

I dont know if there is other place storing album arts, this is the only place I can find.

On Chinese official website, they put japanese card arts on it...

Nice find. I've noticed something.... Magic users actually have REALLY VARYING attack speeds.... For example, Anna has an attack delay of .45 while Emma 0.65 (Victoria has an attack speed of C and is listed in the Chinese card as 0.60 and Wiley [atk spd B] has an attack delay of 0.50)

I get the feeling that they lazily attached an attack speed of D to most magic users when they shouldn't be. It's kind of like how they attributed all the art for demon cards to Hideo Minaba and changed the artist name later on.


Last edited by Blargod on Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:32 am

I really really wish our cards had all of the actual information on them. I like knowing how things actually work not some abstract letter representation.

Thank you very much Chaos for sharing this.
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clocksprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:33 am

It's... interesting.

Gunnel, an E speed, has supposedly an "0.8" attack delay.

Jane, also E speed -- 1.8.

Willy - 2.

Hildegard? 0.7.

Gustav, D speed, is listed as 0.95. Chris, D, 0.55.



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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:39 am

Someone had explained it is the time after their animation completes. So Hildegard is so slow because she has a REALLY long animation. Chris has a similar issue where s/he has a long animation for the attack so it slows down the time between attacks.
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Despoted
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:46 pm

I hope someone is updating Zoebeagle's spreadsheet with this information since it's the final piece of objective information necessary to determine the true attack power of each unit. I think of skill, cost and range as subjective since it it's effectiveness depends on the event and monster.
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clocksprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:47 pm

I would update, but I don't understand the information given. If the true attack depends on something like animation finishing, then those numbers don't really give us the full picture.

(I mean, someone explain to me what on earth is going on with those Es I quoted, or the huge variety in D-speeds.)

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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:03 pm

Well, we do have the information on ATTACK DELAY, monster defenses and etc.

Except it's represented in Letter grade system... :/

But it's there. Why they chose so - have no clue...

Btw the Attack Delay is NOT actuall attack delay. While charles does have a 0.2 attack delay, he DOESN'T attack each 0.2s :/ there's a formula behind that as well... :/

(Hmm and seeing chinese wiki... seems that they decoded the game data......... Or it's not encoded there... *cough*)
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ElysianField
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:25 pm

gtmeteor wrote:
Well, we do have the information on ATTACK DELAY, monster defenses and etc.

Except it's represented in Letter grade system... :/

But it's there. Why they chose so - have no clue...

Btw the Attack Delay is NOT actuall attack delay. While charles does have a 0.2 attack delay, he DOESN'T attack each 0.2s :/ there's a formula behind that as well... :/

(Hmm and seeing chinese wiki... seems that they decoded the game data......... Or it's not encoded there... *cough*)

and what is that formula?

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Despoted
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:29 pm

Well, this is frustrating. Basically there is very little information on the card for a player to determine how powerful a card is or compare it to another card. You can't go off the attack value they give you because the stats growth is different for each unit and attack type. Speed is also useless since the assigned letter and it's actual rate of attack differ wildly between unit types and grade. For all we know, the abilities probably vary wildly between units also. Without all the data that has been gathered, we are all just picking cards we think are good and hope it works out.
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:17 pm

Despoted wrote:
Well, this is frustrating. Basically there is very little information on the card for a player to determine how powerful a card is or compare it to another card. You can't go off the attack value they give you because the stats growth is different for each unit and attack type. Speed is also useless since the assigned letter and it's actual rate of attack differ wildly between unit types and grade. For all we know, the abilities probably vary wildly between units also. Without all the data that has been gathered, we are all just picking cards we think are good and hope it works out.
Abilities shouldn't vary. Only rank matters Smile

And I don't have a clue how the attack delays are calculated, all I know is those numbers...
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Strenhelden
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:04 pm

Wow. The attack number thingy is huge. Now we know for sure that even in the same speed rank, there are differences in speed.

Numbers seem confusing, but the most likely explanation is that each attack type animation adds a certain amount of speed to the given number.

My guess would be melee < missile < magic. Which is why people complain about magic being slow. But this doesn't prevent us from comparing within the same attack type. The biggest beneficiary is magic, because before all the 6*s had D for speed I think. But now we know...
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:46 pm

Strenhelden wrote:
Wow. The attack number thingy is huge. Now we know for sure that even in the same speed rank, there are differences in speed.

Numbers seem confusing, but the most likely explanation is that each attack type animation adds a certain amount of speed to the given number.

My guess would be melee < missile < magic. Which is why people complain about magic being slow. But this doesn't prevent us from comparing within the same attack type. The biggest beneficiary is magic, because before all the 6*s had D for speed I think. But now we know...

I don't think you are right with the melee < missile < magic thing. Look at my first post again. If anything, most melee should actually have a longer animation because speed c ranged units are faster than speed c melee units.
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myad
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:57 pm

actually, i have been meaning to ask about the speed rating as well...

does the rating mean time for the next attack -- like it takes 5 seconds for the next attack to start...

what about how fast it takes to hit? it might take 5 seconds for the next attack... but it takes perhaps 1 second to hit the monster?

i used Helmut and sometimes, it's painful to see how slow his 'rocket' flies... by the time i see the animated rocket hit and explode, sometimes the monster is no longer there... or worse... moved away from the spot...

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GAKUBUN



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:38 am

"Attack delay" statistics for some 5*,6* from Chinese website

Camille B 0.45
Thrain B 0.45
Ignat B 0.5
Sheryl C 0.45
Rose C 0.5
Gerhard C 0.6
Sofia C 0.6
Victoria C 0.6
Bernhard C 0.75
Sonia C 0.8
Caecillia D 0.4
Laura D 0.5
Edgar D 0.55
Erhard D 0.55
Sarah D 0.55
Elena D 0.6
Plautia D 0.6
Adolph D 0.65
Vivianne D 0.65
Lucrezia D 0.7
Joachim D 0.8
HeidemarieE 0.7
Reinhard B 0.4
Minerva C 0.4
Agrippina C 0.6
Ellen C 0.6
Ninetail D 0.5
Succubus D 0.55
Gloria(P) D 0.6
Beatrix D 0.65
Dorothea D 0.65
Faith D 0.65
Petra D 0.65
Cornelia D 0.7
Anastasia D 0.75
Abel D 0.8
Georgios D 0.85
Vlad D 1
Alexander E 0.75
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:59 am

Go Caecillia!
She is tied at .4 for the shortest attack delay.

But we have no stats on the animation time for each unit. Do we?

Wait a minute, what happened to Charles? and is he the only 5 or 6 * that has faster than a B?
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:19 am

Wheatmidge wrote:
Strenhelden wrote:
Wow. The attack number thingy is huge. Now we know for sure that even in the same speed rank, there are differences in speed.

Numbers seem confusing, but the most likely explanation is that each attack type animation adds a certain amount of speed to the given number.

My guess would be melee < missile < magic. Which is why people complain about magic being slow. But this doesn't prevent us from comparing within the same attack type. The biggest beneficiary is magic, because before all the 6*s had D for speed I think. But now we know...

I don't think you are right with the melee < missile < magic thing. Look at my first post again. If anything, most melee should actually have a longer animation because speed c ranged units are faster than speed c melee units.

I think it's the fact that melee rarely miss their targets, while the flight time for magic is the longest. No doubt though, melee tend to have the longest delay.

I doubt we will ever solve the problem in trying to calculate the actual attack speed of units even with these numbers.
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Despoted
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:34 pm

It looks like it's going to take brute force to get at each unit's true speed. The easiest way would be to film a Black Dragon fight and then counting the number of attacks each unit makes before the dragon kills you. You can then easily calculate an attack rate per minute. Hmmm, if only there was someone with lots of Flame Tickets and a 99% completed album...gtmeteor, I think I just signed you up for this.
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ElysianField
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:57 pm

where would oktavia be in this list?

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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:43 pm

ElysianField wrote:
where would oktavia be in this list?

If you are curious I think your best bet would be to try it out and let us know.
I for one don't have access to any 6* units.

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ElysianField
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:22 pm

Wheatmidge wrote:
ElysianField wrote:
where would oktavia be in this list?

If you are curious I think your best bet would be to try it out and let us know.
I for one don't have access to any 6* units.


try it out how?

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ElysianField
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:35 pm

oktavia attacks 17 times when deployed first in the black dragon before he attacks.
(16 and missle in the air (no hit yet))

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BkWiz
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:27 am

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Last edited by BkWiz on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:08 pm

I was experimenting a little more about the attack delay of different units, and range is not a factor at all. The distance between a unit and a monster does not affect the time it takes for a projectile to hit.
If the monster is closer to the unit the projectile moves slower while if the monster is further from the unit the projectile moves faster, but in both cases the projectile hits at the same time.
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BkWiz
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:17 pm

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myad
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:28 am

now here's something interesting...

sogno...

speed = D... but i believe the D speed indicates the total damage. she starts hitting like almost instantly and i think it's like 10 times to complete the total damage...

so, is this D a good D? coz the SLOW effect starts to kick in on the first hit...
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