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 Attack Speed

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Wheatmidge



Join date : 2012-10-01
Posts : 106

PostSubject: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:11 pm

So I have been playing around with attack speeds because the number representations in the game seem to be a little off. I am trying to organize the cards by their actual delay between attacks. To measure I am basing it on time between two attacks showing damage on a monster.

****
Angela - S
Katherine - C
Alex - C
Mylene - C, Livia - C, Gloria - C
Achillea - B, Agnes - B
Samantha - C
Dhimitrios - C
Paige - C
Mermaid - D
Miriam - D, Sergei - D
Gleb - D
Christof - D
Warpugs - D
Anton - C
Georgine - D
Helmut - E


*****
Kyo - B
Caecilia - D, Yuki - D
Ignat - B
Aleistar - D, Mihiro - D
Erhard - D, Plautia - D, Claude - D
Gerhard - C, Werewolf - C
Meg - C, Rose - C
Bernard - C
Sonia - C, Vivianne - D, Emma - D
H. Helmut - E
Kiki - D, Lucrezia - D
Joachim - D
Hiedemaria - E
Hildegarde - E
Sogno - D, Arrebol - D

So far that is the list I have, higher on the list means faster attacks. And if I couldn't determine which unit was hitting faster they ended up on the same row.
I would love it if someone else who had time on their hands and access to different cards would help me add more to the lists.
Ensure you aren't comparing with your leader unit because it gets the speed bonus from your skills.


Last edited by Wheatmidge on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:13 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:27 pm

Agnes has the same atk spd as Achillea. Mylene and Livia should have slower attack speed than Achi. You need to take into account their attack range to ensure that one does not get an unfair advantage in attacking first.

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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:40 pm

Blargod wrote:
Agnes has the same atk spd as Achillea. Mylene and Livia should have slower attack speed than Achi. You need to take into account their attack range to ensure that one does not get an unfair advantage in attacking first.


Test out Mylene vs Achillea. As long as they both have monsters withing their range so they are attacking at maximum speed Mylene will hit faster than Achillea.
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:54 pm

Wheatmidge wrote:
Blargod wrote:
Agnes has the same atk spd as Achillea. Mylene and Livia should have slower attack speed than Achi. You need to take into account their attack range to ensure that one does not get an unfair advantage in attacking first.


Test out Mylene vs Achillea. As long as they both have monsters withing their range so they are attacking at maximum speed Mylene will hit faster than Achillea.

I don't have Mylene of Livia any more. Even then, I don't even know how to test that without having an event boss that comes out in the Demon Tower or Black Dragon Castle without giving one an unfair advantage (even with this, I cannot simultaneously deploy both of them). I can only compare units with the same range and tell you how fast each one attacks (e.g. Agnes and Achi).

You're not suggesting that the game erroneously placed an attack speed of C on Mylene and Livia, while Agnes and Achi don't really have an attack speed of B? I really find that very difficult to believe.

How did you exactly test units with different range without deploying one first before the other?
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kaieitenjitsu



Join date : 2012-09-08
Posts : 53

PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:58 pm

i also feel that got different speed event same speed unit.
example. Blad speed D. but i feel that when in battle his speed not as fast as speed C but very close like C. I feel he is faster than others speed D unit. ^^
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:04 pm

kaieitenjitsu wrote:
i also feel that got different speed event same speed unit.
example. Blad speed D. but i feel that when in battle his speed not as fast as speed C but very close like C. I feel he is faster than others speed D unit. ^^

This is true. Even if they're listed as having the same attack speed, some units may attack faster than others. This also works the same way as armor resistances since I've noticed some monster with resistance C decrease some base damage.

I just find it hard to believe that Mylene and Livia, who have attack speeds of C, are faster than people with attack speeds of B. I have never seen that before.
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:02 pm

Blargod wrote:


I don't have Mylene of Livia any more. Even then, I don't even know how to test that without having an event boss that comes out in the Demon Tower or Black Dragon Castle without giving one an unfair advantage (even with this, I cannot simultaneously deploy both of them). I can only compare units with the same range and tell you how fast each one attacks (e.g. Agnes and Achi).

You're not suggesting that the game erroneously placed an attack speed of C on Mylene and Livia, while Agnes and Achi don't really have an attack speed of B? I really find that very difficult to believe.

How did you exactly test units with different range without deploying one first before the other?

The test isn't to see who hits the enemy first. but instead who has the shorter length of time before they hit it a second time.

My theory is that the speed rankings are based on type of attack and the letters aren't as accurate as they should be.
Caecilla is a speed D but she attacks faster than the others I have tested her against. I thought that the area-attack people just get slowed down, but she even hit faster than Meg.
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zoebeagle
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Join date : 2012-08-14
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:14 pm

Blargod wrote:
Even then, I don't even know how to test that without having an event boss that comes out in the Demon Tower or Black Dragon Castle without giving one an unfair advantage (even with this, I cannot simultaneously deploy both of them).

Quest 24-6.

Deploy one on top in the first available square on the left.
Deploy the other one on bottom in the first available square on the left.

Deploy everyone else all the way to the right (if you care about completing the quest).

This should give a fairly accurate result because all the monsters come 2x2 and they are exactly the same (top and bottom) each time.

Also, make sure neither of the units you are testing are set as your leader, as this could give biased results due to skill increases.
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Despoted
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:14 pm

I've thought about the speed issue and tried to quantify the advantage of each speed tier. The best method I could think of going at this is to go to the mummy rush stage, 20-1, place only 1 unit at the end and counting the number of attacks the unit makes until the end. This works because once the rush starts, there is more than enough fodder for the unit to be attacking the entire time. The only factor skewing the result is the range of each unit with longer range getting a couple more attacks in at the beginning and end.
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:21 pm

So does anyone feel like helping me add to this list?

I had been using Zoebeagle's strategy on 24-6. But I emphasize not to look at which hits first but watch which hits faster.
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:24 pm

Ehhh... Same speed rank might mean different attack delays Smile

Appears I've provided wrong info >.< *sigh*


Last edited by gtmeteor on Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wheatmidge



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Posts : 106

PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:27 pm

gtmeteor wrote:
Ehhh... Same speed rank might mean different attack delays Smile

For example...

Georgios - D - 0.85s
Petra - D - 0.65s
Succubus - D - 0.55s
Abel - D - 0.8s
Cornelia - D - 0.7s
Reinhard - B - 0.4s
Dorothea - D - 0.65s
Faith - D - 0.65s
Charles - S - 0.2s

Sarah - D - 0.55s
Joachim - D - 0.8s

bam... i love my stopwatch Very Happy

You actually did that with a stop watch? impressive.
Do you mind if I add these to the list?
And is Charles really hitting 4 times for every hit by Georgios?
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:31 pm

Ehhh ... my info might be incorrect... Ill look into it later >.< ... This time I mightve screwed up Very Happy

But, same Speed rank still might mean different aps.
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:45 pm

gtmeteor wrote:
Ehhh ... my info might be incorrect... Ill look into it later >.< ... This time I mightve screwed up Very Happy

But, same Speed rank still might mean different aps.

Which of your data is incorrect?
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:38 pm

zoebeagle wrote:
Blargod wrote:
Even then, I don't even know how to test that without having an event boss that comes out in the Demon Tower or Black Dragon Castle without giving one an unfair advantage (even with this, I cannot simultaneously deploy both of them).

Quest 24-6.

Deploy one on top in the first available square on the left.
Deploy the other one on bottom in the first available square on the left.

Deploy everyone else all the way to the right (if you care about completing the quest).

This should give a fairly accurate result because all the monsters come 2x2 and they are exactly the same (top and bottom) each time.

Also, make sure neither of the units you are testing are set as your leader, as this could give biased results due to skill increases.

Hmm you're right; I never thought of that. I thought it wouldn't work since a range of 130 doesn't fill in all of the gap but the monsters are big enough that they come into range of even a melee person.

Wheatmidge wrote:
Blargod wrote:


I don't have Mylene of Livia any more. Even then, I don't even know how to test that without having an event boss that comes out in the Demon Tower or Black Dragon Castle without giving one an unfair advantage (even with this, I cannot simultaneously deploy both of them). I can only compare units with the same range and tell you how fast each one attacks (e.g. Agnes and Achi).

You're not suggesting that the game erroneously placed an attack speed of C on Mylene and Livia, while Agnes and Achi don't really have an attack speed of B? I really find that very difficult to believe.

How did you exactly test units with different range without deploying one first before the other?

The test isn't to see who hits the enemy first. but instead who has the shorter length of time before they hit it a second time.

My theory is that the speed rankings are based on type of attack and the letters aren't as accurate as they should be.
Caecilla is a speed D but she attacks faster than the others I have tested her against. I thought that the area-attack people just get slowed down, but she even hit faster than Meg.

I think I understand. I tried mixing Caecilla and Sofia and I really couldn't tell who was faster. Even when using Zoebeagle's suggestion, it's still difficult to tell who gets to attack first since stragglers get targeted by those with bigger range.

Guess I'll leave it to people with the stop watches. I'm still hoping (or placing my bets) on the fact that attack speed is universal for all attack types.
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:45 pm

Just trying to revive this thread in the hopes that I can get assistance from people with more variety in cards.

I have managed to add a few more to the list. And So far Caecilia is the most surprising. She attacks much faster than that D next to her suggests.
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aquCHAOS
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:32 am

actually you do not need a stop watch, see this pictures from Chinese Fantasica:





They use actual value to represent the attack speed (red line).

The small the value, the faster the attack speed.

So for Angela and Stray Cat, they both have "S" attack speed, but Stray Cat is actually faster than Angela.
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clocksprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:22 am

Wait, what?

They have those?

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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:25 am

Why don't we have those?
And I think I have heard that those are attack delay, not attack speed. Those don't start counting down until the attack animation has ended or something correct?
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aquCHAOS
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:31 am

Wheatmidge wrote:
Why don't we have those?
And I think I have heard that those are attack delay, not attack speed. Those don't start counting down until the attack animation has ended or something correct?

I think you are right, calling it attack delay makes more sense:)

If necessary, I can conclude a list when I have time.
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clocksprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:35 am

Oh snap, I completely missed that that was the Chinese Fantasica. I kept trying to remember if the Japanese version had that and it just had attack speed letters.

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aquCHAOS
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:44 am

BTW, they also have the actual defense value for the monsters, as well as the movement speed Smile

The defense is in percentage if I make no mistake.

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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:51 am

How the heck does the Japanese and English version of Fantasica doesn't have a clear representation of Attack Speed while the Chinese one does?
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clocksprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:57 am

I guess my next question is, where can I find all the chinese card art? I'm sure they have their own website?

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aquCHAOS
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:04 am

clocksprocket wrote:
I guess my next question is, where can I find all the chinese card art? I'm sure they have their own website?

monster album

units album

Here it is Smile

There are a lot of players picture in monster album though affraid

And I think both the albums are not complete ...

I dont know if there is other place storing album arts, this is the only place I can find.

On Chinese official website, they put japanese card arts on it...
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PostSubject: Re: Attack Speed   Today at 10:53 am

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