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 Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !

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Pandalicious



Join date : 2012-10-26
Posts : 123

PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:32 pm

saphion wrote:
Quote :
you can't win pro tours with just skill. There are staple cards in any ccg that you pay and trade for, or you'd be wtfpwned by anyone with similar skills.

What if i told you that there are MTG tournaments that only allow you to use structured decks (build decks ONLY off the cards they provide) and it doesnt allow you to bring or use your own cards.

E.g. you heard of MTG tournaments where you only get a box of boosters for signing up and you can only build your deck using that box of boosters? land cards are provided separately and can be taken from the officials

I am aware of draft and sealed formats, however these formats introduces significantly more factors than just your personal skill. There are consistent constructed play winners, but not consistent sealed winners. Also you forget the argument, sealed and draft put all players on equal spending footing. So there is no argument point for a player paying less than another winning with skill. Anyways this is getting way off topic.
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:45 am

Pandalicious wrote:
saphion wrote:
Quote :
you can't win pro tours with just skill. There are staple cards in any ccg that you pay and trade for, or you'd be wtfpwned by anyone with similar skills.

What if i told you that there are MTG tournaments that only allow you to use structured decks (build decks ONLY off the cards they provide) and it doesnt allow you to bring or use your own cards.

E.g. you heard of MTG tournaments where you only get a box of boosters for signing up and you can only build your deck using that box of boosters? land cards are provided separately and can be taken from the officials

I am aware of draft and sealed formats, however these formats introduces significantly more factors than just your personal skill. There are consistent constructed play winners, but not consistent sealed winners. Also you forget the argument, sealed and draft put all players on equal spending footing. So there is no argument point for a player paying less than another winning with skill. Anyways this is getting way off topic.

I didn`t forget the argument though, since you do need good cards to win. You're talking exclusively about setups that enforce certain card sets whereas I was talking in general.

Regardless, I will stop replying since this OT.
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Pandalicious



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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:52 am

masta518 wrote:
Pandalicious wrote:
saphion wrote:
Quote :
you can't win pro tours with just skill. There are staple cards in any ccg that you pay and trade for, or you'd be wtfpwned by anyone with similar skills.

What if i told you that there are MTG tournaments that only allow you to use structured decks (build decks ONLY off the cards they provide) and it doesnt allow you to bring or use your own cards.

E.g. you heard of MTG tournaments where you only get a box of boosters for signing up and you can only build your deck using that box of boosters? land cards are provided separately and can be taken from the officials

I am aware of draft and sealed formats, however these formats introduces significantly more factors than just your personal skill. There are consistent constructed play winners, but not consistent sealed winners. Also you forget the argument, sealed and draft put all players on equal spending footing. So there is no argument point for a player paying less than another winning with skill. Anyways this is getting way off topic.

I didn`t forget the argument though, since you do need good cards to win. You're talking exclusively about setups that enforce certain card sets whereas I was talking in general.

Regardless, I will stop replying since this OT.

Think you are replying to the wrong dude lol.
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aubade888
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:03 am

I am a mostly free player, I haven't spent a significant amount on packs or competing. Through fairly trading and a lot of hard work I have worked my way to 6* and now to LE 6*. My proudest moment in my fanta experience was during arena when I managed to get both 5* rank rewards with pure grind. I am going to talk about some of my perceptions on trading just to give you an idea on both sides of the story. I am not trying to incite a flame war or antagonize just trying to give a fair and balanced view.

Me: WTS> Max Heidi 40 TE (Thinking this is a heavily reduced price, and I really like Heidi. I am only selling her to save up TE so I can pursue my dream card someday).
Person: =O I have a lvl 45 Tugba and a fresh Zenobia, can I have Heidi?
Me: Actually I am looking for TE, I am really sorry though.
Person: Why are you discriminating against me! Omg! You're so greedy! Also these cards are worth 40 te.
Me: It's a really nice offer, but I am just looking for te. (Thinking if your cards are worth 40 TE why don't you sell them for 40 TE and give me the 40 te. Instead you want to take a card that I really like and have me do your work for you.)

Or another experience:

Person 2: Hey, can I have your Heidi for 40 pots?
Me: sorry, I am only looking for TE and pots haven't reached 1:1 yet, so I don't think that's enough.
Person 2: Actually they have
Me: Cool, okay talk to you later(thinking if they have then why don't you go and convert them into TE and send it to me)

I'm not trying to be mean to anyone or degrade anyone, I am just trying to show things from the perspective of a seller. I would be like going into a store with a bale of wheat and trying to pay with that instead of with money and then getting mad at the seller when they don't find your offer useful. I am sure your bale of wheat is worth 40 dollars, but I don't have any use for it since I don't have a wheat grinder or any need for it. Also I don't think I should have to run all over hell and back selling your bale of wheat for you. If you want what is in my store you should sell the wheat and then offer me money.

Also my view on cards in this economy, and why many people aren't accepting card for card trades is TE will either stay the same or increase in value. When you have a card in your inventory I kind of see a timer above it counting down until the price decreases. Cards are going down in price weekly. So if you do accept mixed offers there is a great time commitment and added pressure.


Last edited by aubade888 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:40 am

aubade888 wrote:
If you want what is in my store you should sell the wheat and then offer me money.

Hehe perfect analogy. The problem is that 5* cards hold no value like you said, but TE is being moved out of the system every few weeks en masse. You can demand money/gold all you want, but if no one in the entire village has any to offer, you're either going to have to revert to a barter system and exchange goods/services like the rest of us (and still be better off), or close up shop Wink

Other F2P games don't have this problem because free players can still create valuable goods. Take RS for instance, where focusing on a specific trade can net you good things that even paying players want like gold, rune, or certain potions. Better example even is Vindictus' closed environment where P2W is virtually non-existent (at least until now...) and real money will only get you cosmetics or temporary boosts. In Fanta, it seems like there's nothing that free players can generate to be worth anything: it's all TE or 5*LE cards, which only by paying are generated. Such a model is bound to fail.
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aubade888
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:57 am

masta518 wrote:
aubade888 wrote:
If you want what is in my store you should sell the wheat and then offer me money.

Hehe perfect analogy. The problem is that 5* cards hold no value like you said, but TE is being moved out of the system every few weeks en masse. You can demand money/gold all you want, but if no one in the entire village has any to offer, you're either going to have to revert to a barter system and exchange goods/services like the rest of us (and still be better off), or close up shop Wink

Other F2P games don't have this problem because free players can still create valuable goods. Take RS for instance, where focusing on a specific trade can net you good things that even paying players want like gold, rune, or certain potions. Better example even is Vindictus' closed environment where P2W is virtually non-existent (at least until now...) and real money will only get you cosmetics or temporary boosts. In Fanta, it seems like there's nothing that free players can generate to be worth anything: it's all TE or 5*LE cards, which only by paying are generated. Such a model is bound to fail.

That is a very good point. The fortunate thing for our game is that unlike being in a community where people get surprised by a financial catastrophe, we can see the currency trickling away. I have been working hard to downsize my inventory, I only really have 1 5* left to sell. My plan after that is to sit back and relax and perhaps max some LE 4*s for fun, and compete when I have the time. Then sell the cards I get from ranking after maintenance for TE and that's about it. There will always be a way to uptrade or sell brand new rank reward cards.

A lot has been brought up about the unfairness of the lack of TE. What people aren't seeing though is the unique opportunity for free players. When I started to market was so saturated in TE that I had to pay 70 TE for a fresh Sheryl, and I didn't have a chance in hell in competing. Now with everyone being poor I have the ability to grind like a crazy mofo and actually get something.

Here's some inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hliBpJSNw_4

Jinbei is right, you can't get back what you've lost. Instead you have to think about what you have left. For me it's my friends and the fun and challenge of Fanta. For new players I would suggest maxing 4*s and trying to sell them for TE or trade to 6* players for their 5*s and building a nice 5* team. Then you can and sell and compete to slowly work your way up.

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Ghost_Star
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:16 pm

masta518 wrote:

The problem is that 5* cards hold no value

Not true, they just dont hold the value that people think/want them to

masta518 wrote:

Other F2P games don't have this problem because free players can still create valuable goods.

Free players can still:

Farm ranked 5/6*'s
Farm 3*'s, level them to 10 and sell the set for TE
Farm events for tickets, get enough to get 4*'s, level those to 40/80 and sell for TE
Farm Luna, buy 4*'s for luna, level them up to 40 and sell for TE

I'm really getting tired with people complaining. Just stop. You paid the market price for your common 5* back in the day and now the market price is was less, that happens, your common 5* has been pullable for the last 8 months and they are all over the place, no one wants it. There is still ways to get TE, yes the influx of TE into the game has been pretty much cut down to a trickle but there was way to much of it to begin with. EDIT: too much TE in the system due to mass hacking of the game

The decrease of TE in the market will just make it easier for free players to rank in te burning events, sure there will be a few players payin $ for te to rank but that wont guarantee them a spot
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:20 pm

Ghost_Star wrote:
Not true, they just dont hold the value that people think/want them to
True. With people buying packs in ludicrous amounts (more than ever really), 5* are extremely common now and simply aren't worth as much. If this keeps up, they'll be worth virtually no TE, which is a sign of a failing economy when things start having 0 monetary value and the market is oversaturated with them.


Ghost_Star wrote:

Farm ranked 5/6*'s
Farm 3*'s, level them to 10 and sell the set for TE
Farm events for tickets, get enough to get 4*'s, level those to 40/80 and sell for TE
Farm Luna, buy 4*'s for luna, level them up to 40 and sell for TE
-LE5* are still worth money, I should've made that clear. Still, that is not a reliable source of income for the majority.
-I am having a lot of trouble selling 3* sets for TE nowadays and so are my allies.
-You can't really sell 4* for TE anymore, which is the problem that's been stated to the point of ridicule in this thread.
-For the last point, see above.
Edit: You're focusing on the TE aspect too much without looking at the source: TE supply is dwindling and so will card value. You can't make TE simply by maxing cards and selling them anymore. This is a major reason why people whine and moan all day about the economy.
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Ghost_Star
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:24 pm

masta518 wrote:

-I am having a lot of trouble selling 3* sets for TE nowadays and so are my allies.
-You can't really sell 4* for TE anymore, which is the problem that's been stated to the point of ridicule in this thread.
-For the last point, see above.

I am not having any issues selling my 3/4*'s for TE. If you are then its because your overpriced.
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Ghost_Star
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:31 pm

masta518 wrote:
With people buying packs in ludicrous amounts (more than ever really), 5* are extremely common now and simply aren't worth as much. If this keeps up, they'll be worth virtually no TE, which is a sign of a failing economy when things start having 0 monetary value and the market is oversaturated with them.

I bet its about the same ratio of free player to payers, its just there are many many times more people playing than there was a few months ago.

Also keep in mind free players are pulling 5/6*'s from free tickets.

And can we have an real established economy in a game that hasn't yet been around a full year?!?!?!?!

People have build value over an item that was seriously duped by a hacker. That item was taken from event rewards so that over time we can get back to a more reasonable amount of that item back into the game. The 'economy' is just coming to terms with itself and evolving.


Last edited by Ghost_Star on Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aubade888
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:22 pm

Also the 4* for te aspect I sold about five max 4* in 2 days and made about 30 te. I sold Jorm 8 te, Feles 10 te, Cleaves 7te, and Helmut and Biance as a package for 14 pots. Not saying this to brag about my selling prowess, but buyers are out there. Part of it is finding popular 4* people want to buy and saving up feeders strategically. Also I found more success naming the units I was selling rather than just saying I was selling max 4*.
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predator852
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:38 pm

Locking this topic as well. As i remember there are game economy topic around already, also, I'm not convinced this thread will actually change too much, which makes it...useless?

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