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 Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !

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Soulstalker



Join date : 2012-12-31
Posts : 66

PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:40 pm

I don't expect anything. I was merely making a guess on what is going on with the current economy.

And you're wrong about the game not changing. The most obvious change is that a lot less tradeable TE/POT is given as rewards for events. Hell, people were begging for the Areana, not in hopes of scoring a 5*/6* card, but because they thought they could make a lot of TE participating in it. However, the exact opposite happened and that event probably marked the start of the market free-fall because people realized the "era" of easily obtainable TE was over. LOL

It's pretty obvious to me that Moba/SS is phasing out tradeable TE/POT rewards in favor of (p) rewards. The only logical reason (from a business standpoint) is to force people to buy TE with real money.
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Ghost_Star
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:54 pm

Soulstalker wrote:
I don't expect anything. I was merely making a guess on what is going on with the current economy.

And you're wrong about the game not changing. The most obvious change is that a lot less tradeable TE/POT is given as rewards for events. Hell, people were begging for the Areana, not in hopes of scoring a 5*/6* card, but because they thought they could make a lot of TE participating in it. However, the exact opposite happened and that event probably marked the start of the market free-fall because people realized the "era" of easily obtainable TE was over. LOL

It's pretty obvious to me that Moba/SS is phasing out tradeable TE/POT rewards in favor of (p) rewards. The only logical reason (from a business standpoint) is to force people to buy TE with real money.

The TE to TE(p) change was made months ago (6+?) and as has been stated in other threads the TE rewards ended an event earlier in jp then it did with us.... no one should have been expecting the TE to be the looping reward for the last arena.

The market has been in serious flux since day one and each week marks a new era. And really the move to the (p) te/pots in my view has done more to stabilize the market, rankings and forward player progression more than make mobage more money. Really this is no different than a game designer nerfing the game to bring in more into lines with what they think it should be.

No one should reasonably expecting to pick up this game an have a 5* unit a month into it. No one should be expecting to have a 6* 3 or even 5 months into the game.

I can sympathize that people want to be number 1 right out of the gate but that is just not reasonable, doing it this way brings more longevity to the game.
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bells



Join date : 2012-12-16
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:30 pm

Ghost_Star has really good points here. In my experience, the sure way for the free player to get a 5* and eventually a 6* is to grind for feeders for the money players. There is no other ways around. Right now a M4 can only sell for 4-5Te, but the price of a 5* and 6* are dropping by 50% too, so nothing has really changed ratio wise.

The problem though is that there is a level of frustration among the mid-level players because people see the dramatic drop in prices of 6* cards, and yet they still cannot afford them. When they try to sell their 5* cards to raise some TE, they are having a hard time as well. Here is a reality check, someone just offered me a bunch of max 5*s including Norma and Dermond for 15TE each. I don't want to buy these 5*s for any amount of TE because I want to save them for the 6*, and yet I myself don't want to sell my Norma for 15TE lousy TEs either (because I worked hard for her!). Frustration will continue to build, and when people are frustrated, uncertain and afraid, they complain.
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pknott
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:49 pm

Soulstalker wrote:
I don't expect anything. I was merely making a guess on what is going on with the current economy.

And you're wrong about the game not changing. The most obvious change is that a lot less tradeable TE/POT is given as rewards for events. Hell, people were begging for the Areana, not in hopes of scoring a 5*/6* card, but because they thought they could make a lot of TE participating in it. However, the exact opposite happened and that event probably marked the start of the market free-fall because people realized the "era" of easily obtainable TE was over. LOL

It's pretty obvious to me that Moba/SS is phasing out tradeable TE/POT rewards in favor of (p) rewards. The only logical reason (from a business standpoint) is to force people to buy TE with real money.

I'm seeing alot of "quitting" sales for pure TE. And they have many many many nice things to sell. They don't look free to me.
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Derpa



Join date : 2013-03-07
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:15 am

Pandalicious wrote:
This is like a collectible card game, think of rank prizes as foil rares, you are not getting them unless you spend $.

Wait what? If it was like a CCG then you would get it with player skill not money.
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myad
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:27 am

pknott wrote:
I'm seeing alot of "quitting" sales for pure TE. And they have many many many nice things to sell. They don't look free to me.
this quitting sales is something i dun get. if someone is quitting, why sell cards for TE? what is the use of TE to a person who is no longer going to play the game?

i'd say if you're quitting, give the cards away -- give them to some lucky newbie, or some good allies... and what not...

_________________
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:37 am

I used to think the economy will get worst as TE becomes more scarce, but then I thought back to Gr. 11 finance and realized the problem is the playerbase, not the TE. Yeah, TE is important and holds value like gold, but just like gold, it doesn't have to be the main unit of trading. We have 3*/4* cards and Luna that can work just as well since they are still useful to higher players. Even if they don't need it, they WILL have to start buying into the bartering system sooner or later as TE dries up even more.

The problem right now is waiting for the top players to go, "Oh hey, maybe we should start to adopt 4* and 5* cards as currency!", but because there is a huge flood of them from people buying packs and remaining set in their ways (lol ignorant) for TE, it's hard to transition to a different medium of currency. I mean, Mobage really has no reason to fix this because it doesn't help them in the long run. You guys keep going, "But people are quitting!". Yeah, but those who quit are those who won't stay around for long or were already getting bored anyways. imo, I think it's easier than ever for a new player to get their first 5* since a lot of people accept half trades or pure bartering now.

Those who don't and keep hording TE? I say let em. Let them keep all of those 5*/6* cards that they keep trying to sell for 50-500TE. Twisted Evil
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loniguseze
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:29 am

As long as ppl pay those hilarious prices for these event and the cash flow continues nothing will change or more like it will surely get worse.

The paying community dictates the market values.
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MaskedBunny



Join date : 2013-02-13
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:45 am

I have read this extensively and I think People have missed a very important fact about how the economy works. In pay to win style games.
For the most part after thinking about it for a while during grinds I actually agree with what Mobage is doing. (No trolling please this is my opinion and I will justify it)

If you look at the "history" of this game from what I have found. (Obviously excluding the XMas event)
They were doing what sales men will and should do. Throwing TE at people in the early stages was a good way to "inject" activity into the game. Some Te and some pots makes the game more playable.
Now that the player base is gaining in size this need is gone. There is far less reason to "sell" the game so cheaply. Hence the rewards dry up. This is a good thing.

Why? People say the market is "crashing" That is not the case. The market was based on a kind of "Golden Age" of TE. BUT people have to remember that TE has almost no value back then as it was too easy to get. This means that no one would buy TE. Why should they?

Now with TE "drying up" people are forced to use less. While people complain about its a good thing. There will soon be a point where cards "deflate" in value to the point where buying cards packs to get cards becomes less attractive than simply buying PURE TE from the shop. As players and ESPECIALLY FREE players actually WANT this to happen.
Once TE comes to this point we will see another shift in the market. If it follows other games I have played we will see a "TE boom" but that is beside the point.

The main point is that given time a point will be reached where buying TE vs Buying card packs will be an honestly tough choice for people who spend money. Not the crazy spenders but the people like me. People who throw some money at a game they enjoy. And people should pay something IMO. Its fair. The game was free to make. Support it if you enjoy it.

This point. When TE gains sufficient value is the point when we can actually start talking about "market". Everything, EVERYTHING has a baseline to compare to. This baseline is unchanging. Even humans still compare almost everything gold. We have advanced ways of doing but gold is king. In this game. TE is that comparison. And the "value" of TE has been crap in the past. It is improving.
Technically. the "value" of a card hasn't really dropped as badly as you think.
I say this because people complain that say Nina is only 100TE(just sucking out number) but you forget how much more difficult it is to get that 100TE.

My suggestion to everyone is wait for the inevitable flat line. Because it will flat line. It always does. When this happens we will find the balance. THEN let the trading games begins for real.
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loniguseze
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:41 am

Well so basically You agree with me that CARDS should and will be the real trading value where TE is gonna be used "just" as a fixed (that will fluctuate abit) rate for certain feeder/5* cards.

Example:

WTS 5* Ivy for 10 lvl 40* 4* cards (as an example obviously)

And SOME less to medicore 6* gonna be the same with multiple 5* cards

Indeed as the comunity grews and gets older the values of different things changes. It is still tho a very long way for a stable market. And sadly most suffering now the beggining players.
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MaskedBunny



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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:11 am

Longiuseze you misunderstand totally. TE is the "currency" you will compare a card to to determine its worth VS another in general.

We will never rach a point where you can compare cards on a solid this card = that card term. Its not feasible because there are too many variable. Stats, DC, art or even rarity to how it is aquired. This is why we need TE. practical example.
Xmas lies is an "average" 5* as well as say Diane. These 2 cards cannot be equated to each other in a 1:1. That is what is for. Because Xlies is more "Valuable" In her card her speed, art and Rarity give her an edge. This is Where TE give us a universal comparing medium.

My whole point was that people misunderstand the "market crash" because its not a crash. It has never stabilized or gained any consistency. We are still getting to the point where a market becomes steady for the first time. and the Inflated value of cards burns out and TE's value is consistant. This TE consistancy will only happen when the cards have deflated to the point where TE balances. The balance here is how easy it is to get Rare cards from a card pack as opposed to buying said card via straight TE.
PS: this will happen quicker if Step ups stop happening (make no mistakes. i Loved the Step Ups. I got Oktavia from it. BUT its bad for the balance we need to reach)

Get it?
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Ghost_Star
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:26 am

myad wrote:
pknott wrote:
I'm seeing alot of "quitting" sales for pure TE. And they have many many many nice things to sell. They don't look free to me.
this quitting sales is something i dun get. if someone is quitting, why sell cards for TE? what is the use of TE to a person who is no longer going to play the game?

i'd say if you're quitting, give the cards away -- give them to some lucky newbie, or some good allies... and what not...


basically most of these people are just taking a break, quitting for now, they are selling their 5/6* cards for te so if they ever come back the can use that te to get back into the game and buy their cards back or at least what would be considered a few good units. Do they know for sure they be back? no, but if the ever do decide to come back they dont want to have to start from scratch. They are expecting to get the fair market price for their cards, or a bit less, do not confuse quitting with hey please spam my wall with stupid low ball offers....
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bells



Join date : 2012-12-16
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:30 am

Those quitting sales are probably half-retirement with a possibility of a come back. They sell for TE so that if they do come back, they can jump start with some nice new cards.
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saphion



Join date : 2013-01-20
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:49 am

Mobage / silicon / fantasica creator did not ruin the economy.. players did. All the TE in existence are going towards 1 direction.. Towards people who sell 6*s

People who sell 6* cards for pure TE only are the ones ruining this market

6* sellers sell 6* and hold the TE and do not spend it or only spend it on system(i.e. events) all generated / bought TE goes to them and never comes back out thats why we have no TE

To make things worst they dont take in card trades only TE 5 times 20TE card for a 100TE card? nty go get TE for me.

In the end you see 5* cards like emma for ridiculous prices because they want to gather the required TE to buy a 6*

and 4* players grinding like crazy for the minimal wage as there are many alternatives to max 4* now

So in the end TE moves like this

4* player -> 5* player -> 6* player -> hoard or use in events! it never ever comes back out
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:30 pm

saphion wrote:
4* player -> 5* player -> 6* player -> hoard or use in events! it never ever comes back out

Yeah, the problem is that TE is being consumed at a ridiculously fast rate every big event (ie. panel) and never being regenerated. Like I said though, it's entirely possible to move towards a bartering system. The issue is when the top players will adopt that policy. You can only horde so much before all TE dries up Rolling Eyes
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Varis
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:00 pm

Derpa wrote:
Pandalicious wrote:
This is like a collectible card game, think of rank prizes as foil rares, you are not getting them unless you spend $.

Wait what? If it was like a CCG then you would get it with player skill not money.
Wrong. You have to have bought cards already to build a deck in order to compete for the fancy card. Skill without a deck to make use of that skill is worthless. That means you have to spend money.
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Ghost_Star
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:26 pm

Varis wrote:
Derpa wrote:
Pandalicious wrote:
This is like a collectible card game, think of rank prizes as foil rares, you are not getting them unless you spend $.

Wait what? If it was like a CCG then you would get it with player skill not money.
Wrong. You have to have bought cards already to build a deck in order to compete for the fancy card. Skill without a deck to make use of that skill is worthless. That means you have to spend money.

skill can still beat a stacked deck
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Pandalicious



Join date : 2012-10-26
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:32 pm

Ghost_Star wrote:
Varis wrote:
Derpa wrote:
Pandalicious wrote:
This is like a collectible card game, think of rank prizes as foil rares, you are not getting them unless you spend $.

Wait what? If it was like a CCG then you would get it with player skill not money.
Wrong. You have to have bought cards already to build a deck in order to compete for the fancy card. Skill without a deck to make use of that skill is worthless. That means you have to spend money.

skill can still beat a stacked deck

Pretty sure having the most awesome skill in the world isn't going to change the fact you are going to pull some random trash card that you wish you never paid for. On the other matter of skill winning games, no you can't win pro tours with just skill. There are staple cards in any ccg that you pay and trade for, or you'd be wtfpwned by anyone with similar skills.
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Derpa



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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:11 pm

Pandalicious wrote:


Pretty sure having the most awesome skill in the world isn't going to change the fact you are going to pull some random trash card that you wish you never paid for. On the other matter of skill winning games, no you can't win pro tours with just skill. There are staple cards in any ccg that you pay and trade for, or you'd be wtfpwned by anyone with similar skills.

Pretty sure you have never played a CCG before, since been more then few "pro" players who took pretty weak decks and won or placed vert well.
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Pandalicious



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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:32 pm

Derpa wrote:
Pandalicious wrote:


Pretty sure having the most awesome skill in the world isn't going to change the fact you are going to pull some random trash card that you wish you never paid for. On the other matter of skill winning games, no you can't win pro tours with just skill. There are staple cards in any ccg that you pay and trade for, or you'd be wtfpwned by anyone with similar skills.

Pretty sure you have never played a CCG before, since been more then few "pro" players who took pretty weak decks and won or placed vert well.

lol try again, pro tours are not your local fnm kids buying cards with allowances. Unless you are just looking to bounce out day 1, sure. Anyone who actually went to one would know this. You just lost all credibility.
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:43 pm

Derpa wrote:
Pandalicious wrote:


Pretty sure having the most awesome skill in the world isn't going to change the fact you are going to pull some random trash card that you wish you never paid for. On the other matter of skill winning games, no you can't win pro tours with just skill. There are staple cards in any ccg that you pay and trade for, or you'd be wtfpwned by anyone with similar skills.

Pretty sure you have never played a CCG before, since been more then few "pro" players who took pretty weak decks and won or placed vert well.

Have you ever been in a MTG or Pokemon tournament that was state or national and not just your local hobbyist store? Serious question.
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saphion



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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:39 pm

There are TCG/CCG card games like MTG that have structured deck tournaments, it is based on skill not quality of cards since everyone only that few decks to choose from
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Pandalicious



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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:41 pm

saphion wrote:
There are TCG/CCG card games like MTG that have structured deck tournaments, it is based on skill not quality of cards since everyone only that few decks to choose from

Feel free to name some, other than the fringe ones, any popular tcg/ccg will command market value for heavily used cards.
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saphion



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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:48 pm

Quote :
you can't win pro tours with just skill. There are staple cards in any ccg that you pay and trade for, or you'd be wtfpwned by anyone with similar skills.

What if i told you that there are MTG tournaments that only allow you to use structured decks (build decks ONLY off the cards they provide) and it doesnt allow you to bring or use your own cards.

E.g. you heard of MTG tournaments where you only get a box of boosters for signing up and you can only build your deck using that box of boosters? land cards are provided separately and can be taken from the officials
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Crazy Market! Things need to Change! !   Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:16 pm

So, are you telling me that people using exclusively first gen decks with obvious bans (like Bill) in Pokemon can win consistently against those using modern decks in Pokemon TCG? Because there are still top tier cards that you need if you want to win.
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