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 Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!

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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:02 am

Nykidxxx wrote:
TE and Pots are terrible currency :/ The reason the market is crashing is because of the terrible currency we are using.
The reason the market is crashing is because the 5* and 4* cards are being injected into the system constantly, which completely destroys their value with over-saturation. It won't matter if Mobage adds more TE in the system because prices will just scale. Someone made the point that prices of cards remain relatively stable to each other (with few exceptions), which is an indication that the economy itself is fine if cards from packs are not accounted for; it's just that the currency simply doesn't exist.

Do you really think that if Mobage gives us more TE, anything will change? 5* cards will still be worth next to nothing when compared to 6* that will shoot back up in price to like 300+TE. Simply put, we need to wait to for the economy to stabilize.
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tomoyo
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:36 am

masta518 wrote:


Do you really think that if Mobage gives us more TE, anything will change? 5* cards will still be worth next to nothing when compared to 6* that will shoot back up in price to like 300+TE. Simply put, we need to wait to for the economy to stabilize.

I don't think 6* prices will go back up. The recycling event allows you to dump a 6* for 9000 points, and a TE can get you 150 points. People keen on the event and have extra 6* will sell these 6* cheap for fast TE (~100-150 TE) because it'll get them more points. (9000 points = 60 TE only). Since you need like 10 fruits to finish the level break for a 6* many people will want these points.

How would the economy stabilize? People who used to buy maxed 4* at 10TE don't buy the same card at 5TE now. Everyone's liquidating all their cards (see all the auctions) and hoarding the TE but not buying anything (and some not using them in event too). To many free players there isn't even much of an economy now - you can't sell, you can't buy. I'm curious how this will end.

I think we need more TE. Prices will shoot up but then since there is a supply of TE people will be wiling to buy with TE. Its not the TE-card value that is the problem, is that everyone wants to sell for TE but no one wants to buy with TE Surprised TE will be passed around much easier if you didn't have to treat each TE like it is the last (in a limited supply of TE).
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lmnseason
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:38 am

As a free player who hold cards, I am still selling cards for TE value. It takes me a really long time to sell them now but I am still getting some TE. Do I thing that we're out of TE? No. There are still TE out there and just like gold, they are earned with a proper effort.
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KuroStar
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:42 am

Be like some people and sell TE for pots Razz
There are, really!

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What are you looking at? Razz

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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:26 pm

tomoyo wrote:
I don't think 6* prices will go back up.
Yeah I forgot about recycling event; I was afraid that will hurt free players even more.
tomoyo wrote:
How would the economy stabilize?
That was just reference to the idea that we can't do anything and have to see what happens. Future looks bleak despite people telling us that we can still get TE, but I want to see if sellers will eventually get desperate enough to start selling common 6*. I doubt it, but speculation doesn't help lol.
tomoyo wrote:
Prices will shoot up but then since there is a supply of TE people will be wiling to buy with TE.
But like I said, that doesn't solve the problem of oversaturation in the market. 5* will continue to increase in quantity, which will just drive prices down. I don't care if Mobage gives us 1000 TE each, but if we get 100000 5* card from packs in over time, 6* prices will just rise to ludicrous amounts in response. Printing money is always the short term answer - not for long term stability.
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Ysellian



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:35 pm

how has the game been keeping up in Japan?
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leosiu
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:14 pm

Nykidxxx wrote:
TE and Pots are terrible currency :/ The reason the market is crashing is because of the terrible currency we are using. Any ingame economy or even real world economy would collapse if the main currency they use is also burned up for entertainment. the TE flows into 6* holders then into events, and nothing comes back. Mobage should count the number of TE used for an event and hand back that number as prizes evenly through all players in the next event, therefore keeping balance in te inflow and outflow.


I saw a Paris trying to sell for 170 for three days on my wall, and a monica going for 160, both maxed. I am only a month old in this game, but I do believe these cards are worth 300+?
6* cards have a range too you know, 100-2500, it becomes the same as 5* and 6*, the 2500 might hold firm since theres only like 50-200 of that card total, but the rest would have to compete and sell for cheaper in order to amass the TE needed for the 2500 cards.
8. Wheres the TE?

You don't understand what is good currency and what is good economy. Good currency should easy the trading and transaction would increase such that the market efficiency will increase. That is, say you have 10 4*, you sale them for 1TE each and you sell all of them. Then you find someone has a Thrain and you buy it with 10TE. Transaction is done! However, if you have 10 4* and go to the seller, he may not want to sell to you coz transaction cost of barter is higher (time for selling 10 4* for TE as well as potential devaluation of cards).

Another important criteria of good currency is they are all the same! This is so important! So, if you assume 4* they are all the same, that's completely wrong! If someone provides random 4* in mixed trade, I will not accept Django by saying "no Django plz" even he is a 4*! (btw, he is my 1st 4* from the 1st 4*+ ticket T-T, Django, I hate you!) Also, if you buy feeders for m4*, technically you can request it to be melee, missile or magic coz they provide extra experience to the unit you want to enhance. So, the value of different m4* is technically speaking, different to different buyer! However, the value of TE and pot are the same! I can bank my TE (well, for whatever reason) with my allies with the same amount of TE. Assuming that cancel trade cannot bank your cards and only successful transaction can bank a card. I would not sent my Avirl for Django coz Avirl has a higher actuate value (speed, stats whatever). Technically, other than empty feeder cards with experience only, cards by themselves could hold different value. (I am happy to trade Django for Cleves but no one is going to do that trade, however, if Cleves and Django are both 1TE, you sell Django for 1TE and you can use 1TE to buy Cleves)

But yes, technically, TE and pots are bad currency as they have their own supply and demand, compared to USD, which the supply is controlled by the gov. The gov wouldn't increase/reduce the money supply by 100% in a year or so, coz it will induce inflation/deflation. The people will protest and the opposition party will lobby the government or people will strike or whatsoever. However, SS has no incentive to "fix" the in game economy but their own financial interest from the game. TE(p) is a way to avoid/reduce dummy account which trade away the free TE, you should not blame it. If the system is exploited, the ruler will fix the system unless it benefits the ruler. SS is not going to inject TE into the system coz they want YOU and ME to buy THEIR TE in USD! That's it.

The point I want to make here is 1) TE and pots are technically bad currency, but best in game currency. (I would say USD is the best but...well, you can pact TE to USD though......given you can control the supply of TE or USD or you have sizable amount TE inject into the system or USD to buy out the TE Razz) 2) The price of 6* or 7* or 8* or even 100* is deemed to drop (compared to TE) no matter what coz SS is making money by selling paid players cards. It just depends on which one drops faster......coz the way how they sell the cards (bundled with event item, or the bunny event leader stuff) is way more than the TE supply. (TE burnt vs. card eaten and TE prize+TE bought vs. card bought)

Indeed, what you complained is right. 10 years ago, the banana is ~0.19/lbs while it is ~0.59/lbs......Canadian government sucks! Fix the food price!!!
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leosiu
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:39 pm

masta518 wrote:
tomoyo wrote:
I don't think 6* prices will go back up.
Yeah I forgot about recycling event; I was afraid that will hurt free players even more.
tomoyo wrote:
How would the economy stabilize?
That was just reference to the idea that we can't do anything and have to see what happens. Future looks bleak despite people telling us that we can still get TE, but I want to see if sellers will eventually get desperate enough to start selling common 6*. I doubt it, but speculation doesn't help lol.
tomoyo wrote:
Prices will shoot up but then since there is a supply of TE people will be wiling to buy with TE.
But like I said, that doesn't solve the problem of oversaturation in the market. 5* will continue to increase in quantity, which will just drive prices down. I don't care if Mobage gives us 1000 TE each, but if we get 100000 5* card from packs in over time, 6* prices will just rise to ludicrous amounts in response. Printing money is always the short term answer - not for long term stability.

This is the point why free players do not understand and I don't understand why they do not understand!
Now it is recruitment event and you don't need the SSL that much compared to say the last panel event.....people bought the ticket for rank in completing VDiana.

Coz paid players is the main source of bringing cards into the system (unless they store them in inbox forever) as long as they have money and they have a higher incentive to get cards than TE into the system.
In the lovely rare card reports, there are less report these day! Why? Coz you don't need to buy cards or event item! While in the events, you see a lot of reports! Why? Coz paid players buy the event items with the cards to help them complete in high level!

What does it mean? Just a lot of cards were sold and put into our game......so, card value reduce......
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Nykidxxx
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:53 pm

masta518 wrote:

But like I said, that doesn't solve the problem of oversaturation in the market. 5* will continue to increase in quantity, which will just drive prices down. I don't care if Mobage gives us 1000 TE each, but if we get 100000 5* card from packs in over time, 6* prices will just rise to ludicrous amounts in response. Printing money is always the short term answer - not for long term stability.

Hence fruits ^^
less 5* = more rare = more te value

the complaint I hear is that "but theres still no TE!" But didnt we all say people are hoarding? if the TE values start rising, people might starting buying quickly to sell for a higher price later.
for example camille is a super common unit, dropped to 15TE right now. And high level people dont use him so they will exchange for fruits, less camilles, only lower lvls will have them. Come another arena, higher lvls might buy camille and pay a decent price cause camille is a pretty good unit for arena.

Same can apply to other cards with specific event advantages ^^
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leosiu
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:26 pm

Nykidxxx wrote:

Hence fruits ^^
less 5* = more rare = more te value

the complaint I hear is that "but theres still no TE!" But didnt we all say people are hoarding? if the TE values start rising, people might starting buying quickly to sell for a higher price later.
for example camille is a super common unit, dropped to 15TE right now. And high level people dont use him so they will exchange for fruits, less camilles, only lower lvls will have them. Come another arena, higher lvls might buy camille and pay a decent price cause camille is a pretty good unit for arena.

Same can apply to other cards with specific event advantages ^^

Entirely wrong, no one is going to spend money during deflation. Coz as time goes by you can buy more stuff. So, you should save your TE for tomorrow.

Edit: What you said is seasonal fluctuation of card price (like natural gas demand increase in winter while reduce in summer).
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Nooblack
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:27 am

I wonder who started the downfall of the prices in the market....
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spiritsplice



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PostSubject: Fanta is at fault here.    Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:00 pm

There is only one reason why these problems are happening and everything mentioned is only a symptom of it. The whole problem here is Fanta's greed. TE are almost never awarded during events and most of the ones that are aren't tradeable. So after playing for 6 months, I have yet to accumulate 100 tradeable TE.

Now contrast this with Legend of the Cryptids. Ultra Rares there trade for comparable prices to good 6 stars here (180-1000). In one raid event I accumulated 100 tradeable pots that are used as currency there. Way short of what I need and the following event only got me 10 pots, but the economy there works quite well and isn't imploding in favor of rich kids and the earliest players.

The problem is Fanta, simple as that. I mean, Jesus Christ, a week long event that only yields 3 tradeable TE? That required 48+ hours of playing to get? They are taking all the fun out of this game.

I have other complaints about how they are ruining the game (favoring Japan, programming the characters to let enemies walk by in the trials, making Inferno next to impossible AND making it worse each time around, etc) but the TE thing alone is enough to ruin it. I see people quitting all the time because they are fed up with this stuff and Fanta doesn't care enough to reply with anything but a lame form letter that addresses nothing.

These issues are easily fixed, but won't be. Money is all that matters to these twits.
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lmnseason
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:56 pm

I remember the first arena event I played. Gained over 50TE and pots. Damn I should have never used them if I knew this day would come. lol!
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Esofonic
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:18 pm

lmnseason wrote:
I remember the first arena event I played. Gained over 50TE and pots. Damn I should have never used them if I knew this day would come. lol!

Well, you can get an alex with that amount of TE atm Razz
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:14 am

Esofonic wrote:
lmnseason wrote:
I remember the first arena event I played. Gained over 50TE and pots. Damn I should have never used them if I knew this day would come. lol!

Well, you can get an alex with that amount of TE atm Razz
Nobody loves Alex Smile
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leosiu
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:32 am

spiritsplice wrote:
There is only one reason why these problems are happening and everything mentioned is only a symptom of it. The whole problem here is Fanta's greed. TE are almost never awarded during events and most of the ones that are aren't tradeable. So after playing for 6 months, I have yet to accumulate 100 tradeable TE.

Now contrast this with Legend of the Cryptids. Ultra Rares there trade for comparable prices to good 6 stars here (180-1000). In one raid event I accumulated 100 tradeable pots that are used as currency there. Way short of what I need and the following event only got me 10 pots, but the economy there works quite well and isn't imploding in favor of rich kids and the earliest players.

The problem is Fanta, simple as that. I mean, Jesus Christ, a week long event that only yields 3 tradeable TE? That required 48+ hours of playing to get? They are taking all the fun out of this game.

I have other complaints about how they are ruining the game (favoring Japan, programming the characters to let enemies walk by in the trials, making Inferno next to impossible AND making it worse each time around, etc) but the TE thing alone is enough to ruin it. I see people quitting all the time because they are fed up with this stuff and Fanta doesn't care enough to reply with anything but a lame form letter that addresses nothing.

These issues are easily fixed, but won't be. Money is all that matters to these twits.

You pointed out a very obviously point but I have some more interesting stuff to add. What is an event? In the old days, events were "games" which helped SS to make money by giving players good prize while these days, events are "games" which which SS to make money and more money. Prize? Yeah, you guys will chase after them and buy the cards packs, burn all the TE and pots anyway.

If you go to read the wall of people, everyone says I don't know what I should buy. They will drop the day after no matter how good it is. Previously, the cards can be used in events as well as value storage nowadays, the cards can be used in events but the prize is bad and they loss value as time goes by. So, what should people do? Sell all the stuff and take a long vacation, maybe 10 years later if the game still exist, they could buy V Diane with 100TE. XD

Yes, you're 100% right, I heard some people quit coz the game is not fun anymore or the spending is too much. Indeed, trading, bargaining and waiting for good duel is one of the best feature of the game. However, the game itself is doomed if currency supply is lower. The same thing is true as a country's currency supply cannot catch up the economy and the people are doomed.
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:36 am

Once again, artificially putting in more TE doesn't change anything; you need to follow up with some form of regulator like the Recycling Event.

You guys really think that during a recession, printing more money brings the economy back to normal?
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bamboothief



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:42 am

masta518 wrote:
Once again, artificially putting in more TE doesn't change anything; you need to follow up with some form of regulator like the Recycling Event.

You guys really think that during a recession, printing more money brings the economy back to normal?

Recycling center does help to improve the game economy.

At the other hand, taking money out of the circulation during recession makes the economy worse than before.
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spiritsplice



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:40 pm

masta518 wrote:
Once again, artificially putting in more TE doesn't change anything; you need to follow up with some form of regulator like the Recycling Event.

You guys really think that during a recession, printing more money brings the economy back to normal?

Nobody is spending because it is impossible to acquire more te once it is gone. Everyone acts accordingly and everything kocks up unless you have money to blow. Recessions are caused by market manipulations by external (read government) forces. In this case, SS is screwing things up. There aren't any other meaningful currency options within the game, that is no different than handing the Fed a monopoly on reserve notes. Luna is useless except for enhancing, pots are useless except for training events.

If you could buy moba coins for luna or braves then there would be a *reasonable way out of this.
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spiritsplice



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:41 pm

bamboothief wrote:
masta518 wrote:
Once again, artificially putting in more TE doesn't change anything; you need to follow up with some form of regulator like the Recycling Event.

You guys really think that during a recession, printing more money brings the economy back to normal?

Recycling center does help to improve the game economy.

At the other hand, taking money out of the circulation during recession makes the economy worse than before.

What this recycling stuff about?
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:01 pm

spiritsplice wrote:
Recessions are caused by market manipulations by external (read government) forces. In this case, SS is screwing things up.
Actually, that's partially right (unless you're a conspiracy theorist). Not sure why the government is to blame when there are a multitude of other factors more influential. You think 2008 and 2000 recessions were due to government interference? That was just one reason out of many, most tracing back to the banks and consumers.
If you think just putting in more TE will fix the system, you are sorely wrong. Printing money in SEA is already failing. Everything posted in this thread is responsible for the decline in the economy and saying, "It's just the TE!" is short sighted.

bamboothief wrote:
taking money out of the circulation during recession makes the economy worse than before.
Printing more money during a recession solves nothing either.
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sGabe4
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:21 pm

the recycling center won't solve anything
no one will want to sacrifice anything valued higher than a Fiona
I cannot believe for a second that even top players would sacrifice their regular edition 5*s
they would just try and sell it for more TE, which we all know, we don't have nearly enough to sustain and finance the top players' TE burning spree

actually I for one cannot wait for until all the TE in the system gets used up
because then we can finally start playing this game a real TCG and actually trade cards
TE will never be completely extinct, but as there are less and less available for the masses, we will have to come up with something
so far the best solution looks like to be bartering and actually trading cards
yay us!
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spiritsplice



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:30 pm

masta518 wrote:
spiritsplice wrote:
Recessions are caused by market manipulations by external (read government) forces. In this case, SS is screwing things up.
Actually, that's partially right (unless you're a conspiracy theorist). Not sure why the government is to blame when there are a multitude of other factors more influential. You think 2008 and 2000 recessions were due to government interference? That was just one reason out of many, most tracing back to the banks and consumers.

Bank causes were the direct result of Government policy and monopoly. And yes, it is a conspiracy when people get together to plan to do something. It is called conspiring.

Quick vid for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0NnayDjUS4

Quote :

If you think just putting in more TE will fix the system, you are sorely wrong. Printing money in SEA is already failing. Everything posted in this thread is responsible for the decline in the economy and saying, "It's just the TE!" is short sighted.


Printing more money during a recession solves nothing either.

You are forgetting that there is a shortage of money. If the available money supply is too small, the system won't work. So it is not that "printing money solves nothing". Money is just an exchange for value (until a currency monopoly distorts this). Don't confuse printing worthless money for commodity money. TE's represent a commodity, paper money does not.
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masta518
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:16 pm

spiritsplice wrote:
Bank causes were the direct result of Government policy and monopoly.
Still simplifying the issue. Like I said, it was a lot more than just interest rate changes and you seem to be ignoring all of the other factors. I assure you, macroeconomics is not this clear cut.

spiritsplice wrote:
You are forgetting that there is a shortage of money.
You are forgetting economic drivers, saturation, price fixing, and artificial demand as well. Like I said, this isn't a simple problem that can be fixed with, "Print more money". I have no idea why I'm continuing to repeat myself when you just strawman and ignore everything I say.

Edit: Lol that video Razz
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spiritsplice



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:27 pm

masta518 wrote:
spiritsplice wrote:
Bank causes were the direct result of Government policy and monopoly.
Still simplifying the issue. Like I said, it was a lot more than just interest rate changes and you seem to be ignoring all of the other factors. I assure you, macroeconomics is not this clear cut.

spiritsplice wrote:
You are forgetting that there is a shortage of money.
You are forgetting economic drivers, saturation, price fixing, and artificial demand as well. Like I said, this isn't a simple problem that can be fixed with, "Print more money". I have no idea why I'm continuing to repeat myself when you just strawman and ignore everything I say.

Edit: Lol that video Razz

There is no such thing as "macro"economics. Secondly, Government policy includes a lot more than interest rates.



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