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 Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!

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Nykidxxx
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PostSubject: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:03 pm

Looking through trade threads, see Lucrezia and Adolphs going for 10TE. So my question is, HOW MUCH IS EMMA!? She is the weakest and most common 5*, if there are 5* with good art going for 10TE, how much is Emma worth? 8TE? 6TE?

A max 4* has hit an all time low of 4TE recently, what happens a week from now? 2 weeks from now? fresh 4* going to sell for 5 for 1TE, and Max 4* going to be sold for 2-3TE? 5* down to 5-8TE?


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Esofonic
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Actually, with this rather sad economy, I decided to play more casually than my usual casual pace.

Getting rejected in an offer is almost my daily routine for the time being. Smile
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myad
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:55 pm

bought max lies at 25TE. she's the 4*. now... worth... maybe 5te?

bought fresh bernhard @ 40TE. now... maxed fetching like... 15-20TE?!?

same story with ignat.

so what i do? hoard all my TE. no way am i going to pay with TE unless its something i really, really want, whicg is really nothing. i'm just gonna trade card for card. if they want TE, it better be a good deal for me. i've been screwed too many times and it's about time i do the screwing...

wait... that din quite turn out right. oh, well, you get my point.

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byu1680



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:55 pm

Prices are tanking. Max 4*'s are looking like they'll be worth nothing soon (they're already at half the price they were two weeks ago). I can't do card trades because everyone wants either pure TE or LE cards (because they have some resistance to the price drop).

I can't even sell my maxed 5*'s that used to go for 35-45 TE for 15 TE now.

I see six stars like Rein and Abel selling at 100 TE or lower and prices seem to be changing daily.

I'm not sure what to think of what's going on and I have no inclination to believe that it's going to improve or stabilize anytime soon and it's difficult to find reasons to buy something for TE when the very next day that same card could lose 5 TE in value.
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loniguseze
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:30 am

When I was looking trough the market after I joned something more then two weeks ago I saw Sheryl for 30 TE.

Now when I got her ppl offering me 8 TE for her. And that was the highest offer btw. Also want o buy MAX 4* feeders for 4 TE.

Iam slowly giving up on this game and soon Iam gonna quit if this trend continues. It's sad bcoz I really like it, but collecting crumbles the rich paying ppl leave is horrible.
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myad
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:42 am

what's making my head hurt really bad right now is...

the multiple threads we have talking about the same thing -- essentially the Fantasica economy.

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lmnseason
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:03 am

Not too sure why I'm playing this game right now. Maybe trying to get a record with the most 4* cards. LOL!
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Herault
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:59 am

The problem right now is that too many people are selling and no one is buying. So the price drops and drops as people are worried their cards are losing value fast and wants to faster sell their cards. This would only cause people to hoard their TE as they would want to get a better deal from sellers.
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Nykidxxx
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:22 am

Wall street stock exchange at the start of the great depression in the US, yup, this game is gonna burn up if they leave it alone.

Too bad mobage is all about money and would rather drop this game than improve it if it stopped making money :/
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saphion



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:49 am

The main issue is that every one wants to TE hog/hoard. When they trade they only want to see TE or no deal.

Not sure why this is happening? In my opinion its because of most 6* players/sellers are TE hoggers and harders causing this to happen.

Heres a scenario:

E.g.
6* Seller: WTS "6*card" for 100TE
5* Player: *Offers 100TE worth of 5* cards*
6* Seller: Nty TE only i dont want 5*s only want TE
6* Seller: Sell your cards for TE and come back


5* player is depressed and goes to sell 5*s to 4* player
5* player now becomes 5* seller

5* seller: WTS "5*cards" 20TE each
4* player: can i offer cards?
5* seller: nty i need TE
4* player: but i dont have that many TE Sad
5* seller: nty then

So in my opinion this is why the market is crashing everyone is selling but no one is buying. 6* sellers collect TE and does not put TE back into the market. They just hog it for events and for whatever purpose they want it for so TE is going in only 1 direction: towards 6* sellers who dont buy anything. and since i dont know why the F*** they dont accept cards this is the way it will be..
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Ckrai
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:58 am

saphion wrote:
The main issue is that every one wants to TE hog/hoard. When they trade they only want to see TE or no deal.

Not sure why this is happening? In my opinion its because of most 6* players/sellers are TE hoggers and harders causing this to happen.

Heres a scenario:

E.g.
6* Seller: WTS "6*card" for 100TE
5* Player: *Offers 100TE worth of 5* cards*
6* Seller: Nty TE only i dont want 5*s only want TE
6* Seller: Sell your cards for TE and come back


5* player is depressed and goes to sell 5*s to 4* player
5* player now becomes 5* seller

5* seller: WTS "5*cards" 20TE each
4* player: can i offer cards?
5* seller: nty i need TE
4* player: but i dont have that many TE Sad
5* seller: nty then

So in my opinion this is why the market is crashing everyone is selling but no one is buying. 6* sellers collect TE and does not put TE back into the market. They just hog it for events and for whatever purpose they want it for so TE is going in only 1 direction: towards 6* sellers who dont buy anything. and since i dont know why the F*** they dont accept cards this is the way it will be..


Just because there is no use for the 5* cards for a 6* player...
The only worth of a 5* card to a 6* player is only his or her art.
What they can do with 5* card is just selling them away, which is time-consuming.
As a result, they just need TE or potion for event.

I think the situation would become slightly better when the fruit event coming out.
As 6* player can donate the 5* card for the fruit draw.
But still this situation is hard to change.
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saphion



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:06 am

Quote :
Just because there is no use for the 5* cards for a 6* player...
The only worth of a 5* card to a 6* player is only his or her art.

Dont really know actual prices that well but ill draw an example:

1 quantity of 6*Card A is worth 100TE
5 quantity of 5* cards worth 20TE each

They are of equal value? so personally i dont see why not? To me its like saying i am selling this watch for $100 and i insist you pay me in $1 coins(TE) i dont accept $5 notes(max 4*s) $20 notes(5*s) or any other forms of currency you have... I JUST WANT $1 COINS(TE)! nothing else!!11!1!

1 TE is worth $1 so it reminds me of a $1 coin lol

I mean all cards have a value attached to them. sure it not be of practical use like deployment but he can also sell it for other TE or use it as trade for other cards as add etc...
dont understand why everyone is so insistent on TE. especially the 6* sellers since they are the ones controlling the market

The way you put it, it is as if 4* and 5* cards have no value and not worth TE
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bells



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:08 am

However a 6* player will pay for feeders, either with TE or 5* cards. Grinding for XP is even more time consuming than selling cards! The feeder producers (i.e. free players and new players) should get together and stand firm on their m4 prices, and be patient. I think a little patience will go a long way in this game.
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saphion



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:12 am

imo max 4* price is doomed to drop

3 sets of lv 10 3* cards at 2 TE each is 6TE and it gives way more exp than a max 4*
and i have seen some people selling for 1TE a set

with my same 6TE i will rather buy 3* lv10s than max 4*s

To make things worst if you have more time you could do this

buy feeders with luna at:
3* feeders: 400k a set
2* feeder: 50k a set
1* feeder: 20k a set

combine them yourself

and a TE is worth more than 2million luna not to mention the obscene amount of luna we have in our banks and vault
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bells



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:32 am

True, as I mentioned in another thread, it would be so much better if the cost of enhancement is 10x or even 20x the current Luna amount. This way more emphasis/value is put on people's grinding efforts, instead of training and passing stupid brave points to each other.
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Ckrai
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:40 am

saphion wrote:
Quote :
Just because there is no use for the 5* cards for a 6* player...
The only worth of a 5* card to a 6* player is only his or her art.

Dont really know actual prices that well but ill draw an example:

1 quantity of 6*Card A is worth 100TE
5 quantity of 5* cards worth 20TE each

They are of equal value? so personally i dont see why not? To me its like saying i am selling this watch for $100 and i insist you pay me in $1 coins(TE) i dont accept $5 notes(max 4*s) $20 notes(5*s) or any other forms of currency you have... I JUST WANT $1 COINS(TE)! nothing else!!11!1!

1 TE is worth $1 so it reminds me of a $1 coin lol

I mean all cards have a value attached to them. sure it not be of practical use like deployment but he can also sell it for other TE or use it as trade for other cards as add etc...
dont understand why everyone is so insistent on TE. especially the 6* sellers since they are the ones controlling the market

The way you put it, it is as if 4* and 5* cards have no value and not worth TE


This may contains some accounting theory.
The problem is "market price less selling expenses ("MP")" vs "value in use ("VIU")"
and the VIU of 4* and 5* quite low to those 6* player (feeder or collection)

For a 5* player:
a 5* card has a value of 20TE in both MP and VIU.
If they cannot sell them for 20TE, they still can use them to obtain 20TE equiv value.

But for 6* player:
a 5* card has a value of 20TE in MP but 0 value in VIU.
So, they will only sell them for 20TE, but they would not use them as they have powerful 6*.
Therefore, what they will accept are those can most probably be re-sold to market, like Elizabeth, WWU.
Otherwise, they will just keep 5 5* with 0 VIU.
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saphion



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:40 am

First luna is ueless now u want to make brave points useless? ><

personally i dont think the market condition has anything to do with mobage/silicon/whoever that made the game but rather the people who inisist on taking only TE in trade and not spending a single 1 back to the market.

Imagine this in the real world context we'd be pretty screwed if all the huge organisations(microsoft apple walmart etc.) just took our money and they didnt have to spend a single cent, not on operating costs rental costs, employment... Hell even the owners dont need to eat and drink. After a period of time the world will be exactly like fantasica

Everyone has run out of money to spend, everyone needs money, everyone is selling stuff for money, everything u buy wants only money


@Ckrai

But according to your theory the 6* that they are selling ALSO has 0 VIU, they just pulled another 6* from the 100+ packs they bought(e.g. from vdiana event) and they have no use for it since they probably have another 10 6*s or something.

They have so many 6* that they cant deploy them all or maybe even multiple copies of them so wouldnt that make the VIU 0 too?

Quote :

Therefore, what they will accept are those can most probably be re-sold to market, like Elizabeth, WWU.
Otherwise, they will just keep 5 5* with 0 VIU.

Dont understand what you mean by this? i am pretty sure all 5*s can be resold to the market for their worth
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lmnseason
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:50 am

We don't have TE hoarders. We only have people saving TE for a 6* and people using TE for events.

Also, money is a virtual material. It doesn't have a gold value to where few government banks can overprint money. If you look at it now compared to 1980s, we now have more money than ever. Each year, there are more money being printed. Even if the government and big companies don't spend money, the banks are making more money from debts. So the real world is a completely different story.

Would you sell a 6* for 10m luna + 4 m5*?
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saphion



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:59 am

my TE hoarder/hogger definition: people who only accept TEs and nothing else, will not negotiate for cards unless trading up, will not give up TE unless trading up, probably have at least 4 digit TE sitting nicely in their stash since 2012


Quote :
Would you sell a 6* for 10m luna + 4 m5*?

If i have a spare 6* i dont mind selling it for luna but the person would not be able to afford it in luna anyways

Taking TE as 2-3million luna and a max 6* as 100TE (usually costs more though)
The person would AT LEAST have to pay 200-300 million luna... would anyone be able to afford that?
In short it is not because its not worth it but impossible / impractical.

How much luna would u need to pay for a 300TE max 6*?
at least 2-3million*300?

does anyone have that much luna?


Quote :
If you look at it now compared to 1980s, we now have more money than ever. Each year, there are more money being printed. Even if the government and big companies don't spend money, the banks are making more money from debts. So the real world is a completely different story.

but the average person would still end up with $0 1 day or even negative money since money is flowing in 1 direction. My example merely depicts money flowing out in 1 direction towards consumption and no money is being added into an average person's pocket. Only the number of goods owned goes up but money keeps going down.

Of course my example does not count other factors of the real world examining too many factors would complicates things too much


Last edited by saphion on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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lmnseason
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:08 am

saphion wrote:
my TE hoarder/hogger definition: people who only accept TEs and nothing else, will not negotiate for cards unless trading up, will not give up TE unless trading up, probably have at least 4 digit TE sitting nicely in their stash since 2012

I used to flip card and trust me, it was too much hassle and people always get the point of trading cards. They expect that their card are traded based on their TE value as they add TE for the worth of the card they want. They don't understand the point of me working more to sell the card they are trading to liquidate it. Since then, I'm not interested with trades anymore unless people get this.

And you can only trade 10m luna at a time because that's the max you can carry. The problem is we got trust issues and scamming can happen anytime.
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Ckrai
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:13 am

Quote :
@Ckrai

But according to your theory the 6* that they are selling ALSO has 0 VIU, they just pulled another 6* from the 100+ packs they bought(e.g. from vdiana event) and they have no use for it since they probably have another 10 6*s or something.

They have so many 6* that they cant deploy them all or maybe even multiple copies of them so wouldnt that make the VIU 0 too?


Therefore, what they will accept are those can most probably be re-sold to market, like Elizabeth, WWU.
Otherwise, they will just keep 5 5* with 0 VIU.

Dont understand what you mean by this? i am pretty sure all 5*s can be resold to the market for their worth

Response to your second part 1st.

Selling cards is a time-consuming process. You needa price check on the cards, post advertisement, seek for buyer, argue the offer price and then finally accept a trade.
If you are a 6* player, you wont use the cards, right? as it is nearly 0 value in use.
Then why dont you just accept TE or potion when selling 6*, instead of taking several 5* and reselling them through this goddamn time-consuming selling process?

To sell 1 6* for 100TE -> what u gain is 100TE and you needa go through the selling process 1 time
To sell 5 5* for 100TE -> what u gain may be equal or less than 100TE and you needa go through the selling process at least 5 times.

And you needa assume all 5* are sold successfully.
Why the 6* player would like to take this risk and time-consuming process?


For your 1st part,
Everyone hold his or her 6* for own reason.
For card collection, for rank reward, for resell in special time (like charles and nina for arena), etc.
These are their VIU.
Also, the VIU decreases when you have the more same cards on hand
So, they will sell those with less VIU to the market and you are pretty right that they will sell multiple copies of them to market.

For example, Monica is the highest total damage in game with 30 dc.
So, every 6* player will have one for her magic damage.
However, when they have a copy one, they will choose to sell or trade her as her VIU become for second one.

Another sample, Nina, she is a 6*unit with 15 dc. People may need 1 more to form an arena team.
Therefore, the second Nina or even third one will still have value to 6* player and would not be sold easily.
but after that no more Nina is required for the arena team (no one put 4 Nina in a team), then her VIU decreases for the 6& player and will sell her for other goods.




Last edited by Ckrai on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:24 am; edited 2 times in total
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saphion



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:17 am

Ah yes and there is that trade limit for luna did not touch on that.

Flip card? you mean like pulling packs?

Quote :
They expect that their card are traded based on their TE value as they add TE for the worth of the card they want.

i expect the same thing too? you base your cards on your value and i base my card on mine isnt that only fair?

i dont mind trading a [30TE value card] for [20TE value card] + 10TE regardless on which side of the trade i am on


@Ckrai

Only flaw in that is not many people have 100TE to pump in at 1 go in their stash anymore and based on the current situation most 5* players have less than 50TE but have a myriad of 5*s to offer to trade for a card which is not being accepted even though it is the same value

On a more extreme example pick 1000 players randomly it is easier to find 100 players with 10 TE than 1 player with 1000 TE (unless its not random and you know who to look for Smile)
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lmnseason
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:26 am

saphion wrote:
Ah yes and there is that trade limit for luna did not touch on that.

Flip card? you mean like pulling packs?

Quote :
They expect that their card are traded based on their TE value as they add TE for the worth of the card they want.

i expect the same thing too? you base your cards on your value and i base my card on mine isnt that only fair?

i dont mind trading a [30TE value card] for [20TE value card] + 10TE regardless on which side of the trade i am on

Flipping cards means buying, selling and trading for profit. It is buying and selling but not pure TE. It is a mixture of cards, TE and pots for profit. It used to be common and free players actually have a chance of getting 5* and 6* at a better rate.

If my card is valued at 50TE and you offer me a card worth 20TE, I would expect 35-40TE depending on how hard to sell the card you're giving me. Since I am accepting your offer of trading a card, you have to understand that I have to do more work selling the card you are giving me. I have tons of cards for my self and I don't need another one. If you don't get the logic of this, I will simply reject you and wait for the other person who gets it.

Trading used to be fun but right now, we can't put a price on anything until we see any more TE pool from events.
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Ckrai
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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:34 am

Quote :
@Ckrai

Only flaw in that is not many people have 100TE to pump in at 1 go in their stash anymore and based on the current situation most 5* players have less than 50TE but have a myriad of 5*s to offer to trade for a card which is not being accepted even though it is the same value

On a more extreme example pick 1000 players randomly it is easier to find 100 players with 10 TE than 1 player with 1000 TE (unless its not random and you know who to look for Smile)

That's why 6* player wont sell them for 5 5* cards.
I already explained that selling is a time-consuming and risk process.
6* player wont like to spend time on that.
Why not the 5* player to find and collect 10TE from 10player to pay 100TE for 6*?

It is a market game and the one who have bargaining power would win the trade.
Most likely, it is 5* player who wanna have 6*
Only in some case the 6*player need TE/potion in hurry for event and trade.

Most of the 6* player would not mind keeping 6* until a good offer.
They would only release 6* when they fulfill their target price (Target MV+VIU).
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saphion



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PostSubject: Re: Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!   Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:50 am

Quote :
If my card is valued at 50TE and you offer me a card worth 20TE, I would expect 35-40TE

Put yourself in the other side of the trade. would you pay 60TE value for a card you know that is 50TE?
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