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 Pearls of Wisdom from Trading

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aubade888
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PostSubject: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:08 pm

I thought it would be cool to make a thread where people post their advice/insights on trading. I am not the best at trading, but I think like my experience in math the fact that I'm so bad at it means I have a lot of mistakes to learn from!

1.) NEVER EVER trade when you are in a desperate mindset because 99.9999 percent of the time you will make a bad deal and be screwed over. Seriously, don't do it. I do my best to trade when I am in the mindset of "The thing I have is awesome, but I wouldn't mind exchanging it for another awesome thing. I am gonna keep my options open though." If you are in the mindset that if you don't get this deal your entire life is going to be ruined, then you are gonna make a really bad trade. If you are in this mindset turn your tablet/phone off and go play another game or go for a walk or something.

2.) Imagine (not saying that it is) that TE is worth 1 dollar when you trade it or spend it. I find that equating TE value to real monetary worth tends to make me look at things from a different perspective. Ask yourself "Do I really want to spend 1 dollar on this 4* that I will stuff in my inbox?" "Are the stats and art on this 5* worth enough for me to spend 50 dollars on?"

3.) Never underestimate the person you are trading with, and don't try to push something that you know is a bad deal. Also don't use high pressure sales tactics to get a trade you want to go a certain way. There is a possibility that you may get the thing that you want, but in the process you will have stained your reputation and made people more wary of trading with you. If you treat people with respect and try to be fair then you may have more options open to you.

4.) Keep your goals and needs in mind and save TE as much as possible. This is a hard one for me because I get caught up in liking artwork and want to buy things for that XD.

Pure TE is more highly valued than most cards because to make a profit on a card you have to sell or trade it to someone else. Selling a card takes a lot of effort, so if you expect someone to take all of your 5* and sell them for you, chances are they won't be interested. This brings me to my next point:

5.) I theorize that there are two types of values, TE value and Trade Value. TE value varies based on the state of the market. The further it gets from cards, the more the prices of the cards go down. This happens because the less TE there is on the market, the more selective people are about their purchases.

If you have 100 dollars you made from a day's work and you buy a latte for 5 bucks it's no big deal to you. However, if you spent 3 months starving to death scraping together enough cans to recycle to save up 100 dollars, 5 dollars for a latte is gonna be a pretty big deal. The same is true with selling/trading of TE. If the market has been terrible due to TE shortage and you spent 3 months grinding 4*s to save up TE, you're not going to want to settle for any deal.

The TE value of a unit (let's say unit A) may be worth 400 pure TE, but that doesn't mean you can trade 4 of unit B's (that are worth 100 TE)to equal the 400 pure TE. In terms of trade value, the person trading unit A may value the unit at 450-500 TE worth of cards. This is due to the fact that selling/trading cards is hard work, and TE is more of a powerful selling/trading tool.

6.) Never buy a card that you WOULD mind having to keep for all eternity.Many deals may seem like they're good on paper, but due to certain factors in the market it may be really difficult to sell or trade that card. Even the most experienced traders may make a deal that seems good only to find out that the card they bought is really hard to trade. If your mindset is you are gonna make a good deal for a quick profit, and then sell that card away really quick then hesitate and think things through.

7.) Stalk the Rare Card Report like you are the stalkiest stalker that ever wore stockings. It's a good thing to do in between cooldowns when you're bored, and it helps you gain insight into the market. I also try to look at offers people make, and predict if someone will take them or not. I have found that I have gotten a lot more accurate in my offers by doing this.

8.) If you are serious about trading something and someone offers you, do your best not to shut them down by saying "nty," at least not outright. Instead say something more productive like "That is not what I'm looking for, you will need to add." Understandably, you will feel frustrated if someone offers you 1 TE for something that you know is worth 20 TE. However, if they are off by 1 maxed 4* tell them, instead of expecting them to be some sort of trade psychic. If they don't have it at that very moment they may be able to obtain it later.

9.) If you pull a LE or event card decide if it is worth keeping it for the potential rewards you will get in the event, or if it is better to sell it to get immediate profit. Although this won't always be the case, imagine that the event card you have will be worth half of the value in a week. Ask yourself if it it woud be worth keeping it in this case.

10.) Forgive yourself for bad trades. It happens to everyone at some point. I have the tendency to obsess and worry about if I got a good trade or not. This doesn't help me because it makes me more anxious, and probably annoys the people around me XD. Don't get into the mindset of "I have to make up for this bad trade buy getting a good trade." It's destructive and counterproductive.

11.) Knowledge of comparative values will help you develop a better "Gut instinct." For example imagine that you had a certain unit, and how you would feel if someone offered you another unit for it. If you feel any nagging kind of "uhhhh...maybe not," then hesitate and do more research.

Some new ones I've been working on:

12. If someone says NFS (Not for sale) on their profile it could mean one of two things: 1.)They don't want to sell their card, or 2.) They might consider selling it if a good offer came along, but they keep getting silly offers and they are annoyed. I am going to say that many times it is the second. If you want to approach someone who has NFS on their profile I would suggest asking politely "Hello, I see you have NFS on your profile, but I would like to show you my offer," and if you do plan to do this make sure you have a damn good offer, and not something embarrassing like "Vlad plus WW for Diana."

13. This one is a bit sly, but it is something important I've realized. If you don't want a card that you like to not be considered in a deal, then don't put it as your lead. The person you are trading with may ask you to add, and decide they want that unit added.

14. If you are trading a card that is rare and/or unknown, it may be helpful to put it as your lead. For example, many people may not know who Plautia is, but if they see a cool redhead with a mace they may want her.

15. Try to find ways to inform and differentiate yourself from other people who are selling. You are more likely to get people to buy from you if you put "S>Sonia, Norma, Da, & Hal," rather than just putting "S>LE 5*s."

16. Don't judge people by the card they have as their lead. Sometimes during non-events such as recruitment I set 4*s as my lead. Sometimes if I go to make an offer the person will see I have a 4* and refuse to talk to me because they think I am a new player.

17. Before you decide to sell a card make a mental note of the highest price you expect to get for it, and the lowest price you are willing to take. Before you accept an offer weigh if your need for that card outweighs e price you are getting.



That's all I have so far XD. I am not putting this in the guide section since a lot of this is opinion based. These are just things that I wished I knew when I was new. I look forward to hearing other people's insights. And if you see that I am wrong on a certain point feel free to correct me, since I am still learning too. =3

Editing as I think of more


StarOnyx wrote:
When you see a card you really like and you want to buy it, you can ask the person if he/she wants to sell or trade. Usually sellers might post what they're selling at the 'Comments' on the profile.
Wait for a response and DO NOT SPAM the other person.
If they say 'nty', 'sorry' or 'That's not what I'm looking for' then accept and respect the person's decision. Do not force him/her and bargain and threaten him with attacks and stealing the seller's Luna.

The same goes to the sellers. You can advertise as much as you want but please do not SPAM the advertisements every 10 seconds. Imagine how annoyed the person would be for the top 10 in events amd those in rare card reports. If the person doesn't want to buy your assets, then respect his/her decision. He or she is not your puppet.


predator852 wrote:


I think something also needs to be said for keeping calm. A lot of experienced players tend to develop a way of communication because of a few factors:

1) We spend so much time talking about the game and card values on here

2) That 40 character limit kinda forces your mind to begin working in speaking as directly as possible to save time out of habit, which can make you sound abrasive or dismissive, when that really isnt the case

3) As much as we try not to, we all tend to develop subjective feelings toward a card, If you get Penthe+30te+Meg for Eliz, as soon as you get Meg she won't be worth too much to you because in your head, from the beginning, she was nothing more than trade coushioning, and you only got her to trade for te/your own coushioning.

Because of these things, it's easy for an experienced player to make others feel inadequate by comparison, and over offer for no good reason.

Not to pick on anyone, but I've seen some trade conversations where I, RisingAboveThis and PatchFireFox have all sounded like we just didn't have time for the other player. And in each of these instances it seemed like the other player overcompensated simply because our vernacular gave our words a false sense of superiority.

In my own case I didn't actually feel that way, and I don't think the others did either, but because of that I now review everything I say as if I were someone who never traded on the game before, and am constantly making changes in verbs and puctuation, to better reflect my mood.

I mention this both as a warning to inexperienced players and a little tip to experienced players who like to be fair and don't want to unknowingly rip off other people.


Last edited by aubade888 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:16 pm; edited 10 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:13 pm

First! Very Happy
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aubade888
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:14 pm

theonlyenzan wrote:
First! Very Happy

SECOND!

Also nice toad =3
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KuroStar
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:16 pm

Did you use my example of having 'A' as the example xD

Toad first, Penthesilea second and Francois third xD

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aubade888
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:18 pm

StarOnyx wrote:
Did you use my example of having 'A' as the example xD

XD no, I was gonna name cards but I didn't want to insult anyone or attempt to influence the market in any specific way. Plus values change every day now, so a card worth 400 TE may be worth more tomorrow for some dumb reason. So if I put the price of a specific card it will make my statements seem weird and dated.
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:27 pm

I'm not sure if this should be added but this is about basic courtesy on trading.

When you see a card you really like and you want to buy it, you can ask the person if he/she wants to sell or trade. Usually sellers might post what they're selling at the 'Comments' on the profile.
Wait for a response and DO NOT SPAM the other person.
If they say 'nty', 'sorry' or 'That's not what I'm looking for' then accept and respect the person's decision. Do not force him/her and bargain and threaten him with attacks and stealing the seller's Luna.

The same goes to the sellers. You can advertise as much as you want but please do not SPAM the advertisements every 10 seconds. Imagine how annoyed the person would be for the top 10 in events amd those in rare card reports. If the person doesn't want to buy your assets, then respect his/her decision. He or she is not your puppet.

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aubade888
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:33 pm

StarOnyx wrote:
I'm not sure if this should be added but this is about basic courtesy on trading.

When you see a card you really like, you can ask the person if he wants to sell or trade. Usually they might post what they're selling at the 'Comments' on the profile.
Wait for a response and DO NOT SPAM the other person.
If they say 'nty', 'sorry' or 'That's not what I'm looking for' then accept and respect the person's decision. Do not force him/her and bargain and threaten him with attacks.

That's a great point. I touched on that a bit with my aggressive sales tactics, but that's a good clarification. I get really annoyed if I clearly say what I have is not for sale, or I am not interested in their trade. I am sorry but I am not going to trade my rank reward 5* for 5 lvl 50 4*s no matter how nicely you ask XD.
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:51 pm

aubade888 wrote:
StarOnyx wrote:
I'm not sure if this should be added but this is about basic courtesy on trading.

When you see a card you really like, you can ask the person if he wants to sell or trade. Usually they might post what they're selling at the 'Comments' on the profile.
Wait for a response and DO NOT SPAM the other person.
If they say 'nty', 'sorry' or 'That's not what I'm looking for' then accept and respect the person's decision. Do not force him/her and bargain and threaten him with attacks.

That's a great point. I touched on that a bit with my aggressive sales tactics, but that's a good clarification. I get really annoyed if I clearly say what I have is not for sale, or I am not interested in their trade. I am sorry but I am not going to trade my rank reward 5* for 5 lvl 50 4*s no matter how nicely you ask XD.
I fine-tuned it a bit.

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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:52 pm

StarOnyx wrote:
aubade888 wrote:
StarOnyx wrote:
I'm not sure if this should be added but this is about basic courtesy on trading.

When you see a card you really like, you can ask the person if he wants to sell or trade. Usually they might post what they're selling at the 'Comments' on the profile.
Wait for a response and DO NOT SPAM the other person.
If they say 'nty', 'sorry' or 'That's not what I'm looking for' then accept and respect the person's decision. Do not force him/her and bargain and threaten him with attacks.

That's a great point. I touched on that a bit with my aggressive sales tactics, but that's a good clarification. I get really annoyed if I clearly say what I have is not for sale, or I am not interested in their trade. I am sorry but I am not going to trade my rank reward 5* for 5 lvl 50 4*s no matter how nicely you ask XD.
I fine-tuned it a bit.

XD Okay, I will add it!
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:19 pm

I like 5 the most, as I've been trying to articulate this idea for months now, but I'm always so unsucessful.

I think in 6 you mean never trade for a card you WOULD mind having to keep for all eternity.

I think something also needs to be said for keeping calm. A lot of experienced players tend to develop a way of communication because of a few factors:

1) We spend so much time talking about the game and card values on here

2) That 40 character limit kinda forces your mind to begin working in speaking as directly as possible to save time out of habit, which can make you sound abrasive or dismissive, when that really isnt the case

3) As much as we try not to, we all tend to develop subjective feelings toward a card, If you get Penthe+30te+Meg for Eliz, as soon as you get Meg she won't be worth too much to you because in your head, from the beginning, she was nothing more than trade coushioning, and you only got her to trade for te/your own coushioning.

Because of these things, it's easy for an experienced player to make others feel inadequate by comparison, and over offer for no good reason.

Not to pick on anyone, but I've seen some trade conversations where I, RisingAboveThis and PatchFireFox have all sounded like we just didn't have time for the other player. And in each of these instances it seemed like the other player overcompensated simply because our vernacular gave our words a false sense of superiority.

In my own case I didn't actually feel that way, and I don't think the others did either, but because of that I now review everything I say as if I were someone who never traded on the game before, and am constantly making changes in verbs and puctuation, to better reflect my mood.

I mention this both as a warning to inexperienced players and a little tip to experienced players who like to be fair and don't want to unknowingly rip off other people.

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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:36 pm

predator852 wrote:
I like 5 the most, as I've been trying to articulate this idea for months now, but I'm always so unsucessful.

I think in 6 you mean never trade for a card you WOULD mind having to keep for all eternity.

I think something also needs to be said for keeping calm. A lot of experienced players tend to develop a way of communication because of a few factors:

1) We spend so much time talking about the game and card values on here

2) That 40 character limit kinda forces your mind to begin working in speaking as directly as possible to save time out of habit, which can make you sound abrasive or dismissive, when that really isnt the case

3) As much as we try not to, we all tend to develop subjective feelings toward a card, If you get Penthe+30te+Meg for Eliz, as soon as you get Meg she won't be worth too much to you because in your head, from the beginning, she was nothing more than trade coushioning, and you only got her to trade for te/your own coushioning.

Because of these things, it's easy for an experienced player to make others feel inadequate by comparison, and over offer for no good reason.

Not to pick on anyone, but I've seen some trade conversations where I, RisingAboveThis and PatchFireFox have all sounded like we just didn't have time for the other player. And in each of these instances it seemed like the other player overcompensated simply because our vernacular gave our words a false sense of superiority.

In my own case I didn't actually feel that way, and I don't think the others did either, but because of that I now review everything I say as if I were someone who never traded on the game before, and am constantly making changes in verbs and puctuation, to better reflect my mood.

I mention this both as a warning to inexperienced players and a little tip to experienced players who like to be fair and don't want to unknowingly rip off other people.

Very good points! I will add them to the post.

I am glad you are making an effort, I am as well. I remember how intimidating it was (and still is to a certain degree) to talk to someone who has a bunch of 6*s and who has been around forever, and talk to them like they're a normal person.

It also doesn't help when more experienced players call new players "low ballers," because it creates a negative atmosphere. This atmosphere doesn't help commerce at all since there may be people who want to make offers, but they are put off due to being intimidated.

I try to remember as a new player how freaked out I was when I read the rare card report, and I was like "what the heck are they saying?" Also I remember the first 5* I got (Marguerite) I thought since she was a 5* it would be easy to trade her for other 5*s. So excitedly made tons of really bad and stupid offers not knowing prices XD. I have to to remember this for when I get really bad offers from newer players. There is a desperation in getting your first 5* and when you do get it you think it's the best card ever and that everyone wants it.

Edit: also thanks for the input on 6. I fixed it XD

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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:28 am

Excellent post. Those are some very well thought out and helpful tips for the whole trading process. I think it would be good to mention the value of Potions vs Time Elixirs. TE seems to be the golden standard or accepted form of "currency" in the game while POTS are kind of seen as a lesser TE to some extent, at least from what I can tell. You can typically expect to pay more POTS for a card than TE for the same card.

Try to offer reasonably lower than a seller's listed price. For example, if a seller has a Nina listed for 400 TE, don't simply send a trade for 400 TE and complete the transaction. Offer 350 TE and see if the seller will take that price. If he/she does accept, congratulations, you just saved 50 TE with hardly any effort. If he/she declines, you can always add more or meet in the middle to get the trade done. Some sellers very specifically over price their units to add a cushion for the haggling aspect of the trade, so buy it now prices are not always fair.

Try to find quick sales. Stalk the rare card report during certain times to see if anyone is desperate to dump rare cards at huge discounts due to time constraints. For example, a few hours before an event ends may be a good time to look for deals. People who are right on the edge of acquiring the next rank reward may need more TE/POTS quickly to get a few more places higher and will sell off rare cards they don't use at a discount since they don't have time to find buyers who will pay the market value price.
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:25 am

Nice post Smile

Some things that I've learned:

1) Know when to downtrade. Downtrading gives you more trade material to work with and will make you a profit in the long run as long as you have the time to trade everything back up.

2) Don't tie up all your assets into one card. This isn't just because of arena. Having a variety of cards of different values will give you maximum flexibility in trading.

3) TE is king. Don't rush to spend TE you've got in the bank. Every day you don't spend it it becomes more valuable due to the TE shortage.

4) For players just starting out- your max 4*s have never had as much buying power as they do now. Don't throw them away on just any 5*.

5) This one might be controvertial but if you are a new player and someone more experienced offers you the chance to discuss a trade on kik you should politely decline. If you discuss a trade publicly on your wall there's at least a good chance someone will step in to point out if a trade is really bad.

Here's an example of kik shenanigans that I encountered least week (at this point I'm 3 weeks into the game). It's not just the content of the trade (lowballing is expected to some degree) but the attitude and method with which he tries to force the trade.



Eww.

6) If unsure of prices ASK YOUR ALLIES. They will be more than willing to help.

7) Similar to 6, make good allies. Fanta is a social game and having good allies makes everything, including trading, easier and more fun!
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:36 am

This is a great post. Thank you for sharing your experience this way. I wish this had existed when I started the game! I learned some of this the hard way - and am still learning, I'm still a bit of a noob Smile so, again, thank you for this!!
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:07 pm

I think the most important thing is to remain patient and not get discouraged by the fact that 90% of the players are trying to lowball your sales.

I mean it, I always see the same old people lowballing all the sales they see ("Reve for Tina"), one of a real example. But unfortunately they seem to be the one really racking in the profits and TEs.
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:15 pm

Some new ones I've been working on:

12. If someone says NFS (Not for sale) on their profile it could mean one of two things: 1.)They don't want to sell their card, or 2.) They might consider selling it if a good offer came along, but they keep getting silly offers and they are annoyed. I am going to say that many times it is the second. If you want to approach someone who has NFS on their profile I would suggest asking politely "Hello, I see you have NFS on your profile, but I would like to show you my offer," and if you do plan to do this make sure you have a damn good offer, and not something embarrassing like "Vlad plus WW for Diana."

13. This one is a bit sly, but it is something important I've realized. If you don't want a card that you like to not be considered in a deal, then don't put it as your lead. The person you are trading with may ask you to add, and decide they want that unit added.

14. If you are trading a card that is rare and/or unknown, it may be helpful to put it as your lead. For example, many people may not know who Plautia is, but if they see a cool redhead with a mace they may want her.

15. Try to find ways to inform and differentiate yourself from other people who are selling. You are more likely to get people to buy from you if you put "S>Sonia, Norma, Da, & Hal," rather than just putting "S>LE 5*s."

16. Don't judge people by the card they have as their lead. Sometimes during non-events such as recruitment I set 4*s as my lead. Sometimes if I go to make an offer the person will see I have a 4* and refuse to talk to me because they think I am a new player.

17. Before you decide to sell a card make a mental note of the highest price you expect to get for it, and the lowest price you are willing to take. Before you accept an offer weigh if your need for that card outweighs e price you are getting.

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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:17 pm

aubade888 wrote:
Some new ones I've been working on:

12. If someone says NFS (Not for sale) on their profile it could mean one of two things: 1.)They don't want to sell their card, or 2.) They might consider selling it if a good offer came along, but they keep getting silly offers and they are annoyed. I am going to say that many times it is the second. If you want to approach someone who has NFS on their profile I would suggest asking politely "Hello, I see you have NFS on your profile, but I would like to show you my offer," and if you do plan to do this make sure you have a damn good offer, and not something embarrassing like "Vlad plus WW for Diana."

13. This one is a bit sly, but it is something important I've realized. If you don't want a card that you like to not be considered in a deal, then don't put it as your lead. The person you are trading with may ask you to add, and decide they want that unit added.

14. If you are trading a card that is rare and/or unknown, it may be helpful to put it as your lead. For example, many people may not know who Plautia is, but if they see a cool redhead with a mace they may want her.

15. Try to find ways to inform and differentiate yourself from other people who are selling. You are more likely to get people to buy from you if you put "S>Sonia, Norma, Da, & Hal," rather than just putting "S>LE 5*s."

16. Don't judge people by the card they have as their lead. Sometimes during non-events such as recruitment I set 4*s as my lead. Sometimes if I go to make an offer the person will see I have a 4* and refuse to talk to me because they think I am a new player.

17. Before you decide to sell a card make a mental note of the highest price you expect to get for it, and the lowest price you are willing to take. Before you accept an offer weigh if your need for that card outweighs e price you are getting.

I agree with no.12. im tired of people misunderstanding NFS/NFT

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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:26 pm

Before buying or selling, PC.

lol

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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:16 pm

Thanks for this information - it applies pretty much to any game where you can trade items of value.
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:30 am

This thread is definitely a must read. Smile

Quote :
The TE value of a unit (let's say unit A) may be worth 400 pure TE, but that doesn't mean you can trade 4 of unit B's (that are worth 100 TE)to equal the 400 pure TE. In terms of trade value, the person trading unit A may value the unit at 450-500 TE worth of cards. This is due to the fact that selling/trading cards is hard work, and TE is more of a powerful selling/trading tool.

This...
I wish some ppl read this one before saying the seller is overpricing, noob trader and started trashtalking.. drunken

Oh well.. Card trading has its own challenge anyway.. santa
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PostSubject: Re: Pearls of Wisdom from Trading   Today at 3:11 am

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Pearls of Wisdom from Trading
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