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 Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?

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sleepybryan
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PostSubject: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:29 am

i think people are dumping them to trend but if you compare arena stats for the te cost they are such a value buy in comparison to other expensive units

if i were building an arena unit with a specific skill in mind i would look to buy xmas units first, what do you guys think?
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TypeAlpha
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:53 am

te cost? i don't think that's a factor to consider here. in arena matches, you want units which can DO SOMETHING. Preferably, strong and fast. Honestly, if you look at the statistics, it's no wonder the Xmas units are being de-valued so fast. I honestly don't think they're that bad, but compared to a vast number of other units, they will fall under.
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sleepybryan
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:18 am

have you actually compared the arena stats? xmas units are faster and only slightly weaker in arena stats. i dont think people realize this

for example kyo and barbara both are almost similar but prized way differently

rogue - sold cheaply but in comparisan to other 6 * aa. have same speed slightly lower arena stat

fawn - one of the best 4* unit, fast and cheap cost and kb i really think this is so undervalued

i mean if people had limited te right now i honestly would suggest them to look at cheap xmas units to build up their team and to actually check arena stats for the card they are buying
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po1102
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:14 am

sleepybryan wrote:
have you actually compared the arena stats? xmas units are faster and only slightly weaker in arena stats. i dont think people realize this

for example kyo and barbara both are almost similar but prized way differently

rogue - sold cheaply but in comparisan to other 6 * aa. have same speed slightly lower arena stat

fawn - one of the best 4* unit, fast and cheap cost and kb i really think this is so undervalued

i mean if people had limited te right now i honestly would suggest them to look at cheap xmas units to build up their team and to actually check arena stats for the card they are buying

The thing is you have to balance speed and power. Sure, your team can be super fast and always hits first, but if after all your units have taken their turns and the opponent is still not dead, you're doomed. Barb, fawn, and xmas liese are fast but they have very very low stats, and if their skills don't go off too often (and they won't) you're bound to lose a lot if you only have them for your team.
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57803882
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:36 am

po1102 wrote:
The thing is you have to balance speed and power. Sure, your team can be super fast and always hits first, but if after all your units have taken their turns and the opponent is still not dead, you're doomed. Barb, fawn, and xmas liese are fast but they have very very low stats, and if their skills don't go off too often (and they won't) you're bound to lose a lot if you only have them for your team.

I'm pretty sure that Fawn is in the top 3 of the best cost/performance ratios among all the 4* units.

P.S. and I was absolutely stunned to find out that the best cost/performance ratio belongs to Scarlet, one of the cheapest units out there!
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po1102
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:42 am

57803882 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Fawn is in the top 3 of the best cost/performance ratios among all the 4* units.

P.S. and I was absolutely stunned to find out that the best cost/performance ratio belongs to Scarlet, one of the cheapest units out there!

Cost performance tells you nothing since it leaves out a lot of other factors that matter in arena: speed, damage spike, skill.
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sleepybryan
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:51 am

i have to disagree with you slightly

when people say stats are lower are you reffering to arena stats? as mentioned their stats are only slightly lower, its not massively lower llike 10k plus depending on the star rating

i agree you have to balance speed and power thats why i dont recommend an all xmas unit line up

xmas units have cheap cost , good skill and fast speed. this allows you to put in some heavy cost damager in your team

lastly the topic is devaluation of xmas card, when compared to other cards xmas can hold their own and in my opinion does not deserved to be value so low. for someone with limited te he is in a position to create a better team by buying a few xmas units rather than a single expensive unit which only have slightly better stats
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po1102
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:07 am

Yes I mean arena stats.

And for their devaluation, it can't be helped. If you have played this game for some time you should know this. Witches are cheap because? There are so many of them. Princesses are cheap because? There are craploads of them. DBs are cheap because? Oh man, you see them everywhere. Ppl spent so much last event I wouldn't be surprised if each of them could build an army of xmas units lol.

Supply > demand -> devaluation. That is all.
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duhmichael17



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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:32 am

Honestly, Fawn isn't as great as you may think.
Like others have said, it's good to have a quick speed (B) and low deployment cost (10), but with none of his stats going over 20k, it's not worth it.

Whereas other 4*s like Keith, you get a land stat at 30k, (even though the other two are at 6kk and 22k), C speed, and 15 deployment cost.

In the long run, it's usually not very easy to use exactly 100 of the arena DP costs. And just throwing in a quick unit doesn't help. I'd much rather use Keith over Fawn any day even with the DP and speed differences.

If you're mainly using a 5* party (2-3, like I do), and filling in the rest of the spots with 4*s, the quality of the card is really important.
There are plenty of good 4*s out there that break into 20k+ stats.
You shouldn't sacrifice power solely for speed and DP cost, because either way you're using up a slot for your party.
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57803882
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:04 am

Assuming 1:0.5:0.5 ratio, max Keith is doing 30505+0.5*(6053+22345) = 44704 damage
Fawn is doing 19134+0.5*(16262 + 12226) = 33378 damage, or 11326 damage less, about 75% of Keiths.


If the ratio is 1: 0.25 : 0.25, max Keith is a bit better (37604.5 vs 26256, a difference of 11348 damage, ~70% of Keiths)


As long as the extra 5 points in deployment cost for some other speed C or faster unit provide you with more than that, Fawn is superior to Keith.


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sleepybryan
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:13 am

thanks for providing the above numbers, i guess its also a good thing that people have different opinion otherwise everyone will be using the same units. also people are underestimating speed, a 25% kb chance can make a huge difference for low cost units that act first.

will just see how arena event goes Smile
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po1102
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:36 am

Well where did you get that 25% chance from? I have gone through so many fights where NONE of my 5* activates its skill that I can't bother myself to count, while the opponent's 4* seem to activate their skills ALL the time.

If next arena is your first, then good luck! Don't be too frustrated and murder your phone.
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themadmanazn
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:41 pm

I don't think the low value of xmas units has anything to do with their arena performance. Some of the best arena cards aren't worth all that much. The 4x multiplier just made it so there are a ton of them. Give it time, they will rebound eventually since they are a limited edition set (unlike most sets these days). Eventually enough will be eaten/on players that left and enough new players will join that they will be worth something.

As for the Keith to Fawn comparison, I would MUCH rather have Fawn than Keith. Who cares if Keith does a LITTLE more damage? It is still 4* damage at the end of the day. I would rather get the speed of Fawn + knockback to clear the way for my real damage dealers. Plus you save DC with Fawn over Keith so you can deploy some beefier 5* or 6* units.

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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:23 pm

themadmanazn wrote:
I don't think the low value of xmas units has anything to do with their arena performance. Some of the best arena cards aren't worth all that much. The 4x multiplier just made it so there are a ton of them. Give it time, they will rebound eventually since they are a limited edition set (unlike most sets these days). Eventually enough will be eaten/on players that left and enough new players will join that they will be worth something.

As for the Keith to Fawn comparison, I would MUCH rather have Fawn than Keith. Who cares if Keith does a LITTLE more damage? It is still 4* damage at the end of the day. I would rather get the speed of Fawn + knockback to clear the way for my real damage dealers. Plus you save DC with Fawn over Keith so you can deploy some beefier 5* or 6* units.

Part of the reason the Christmas units are so devalued comes from the low stats of the Christmas units on first presentation.

I won't comment any further on this since people already know my stance by now on low stats.
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predator852
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:41 pm

BkWiz wrote:
themadmanazn wrote:
I don't think the low value of xmas units has anything to do with their arena performance. Some of the best arena cards aren't worth all that much. The 4x multiplier just made it so there are a ton of them. Give it time, they will rebound eventually since they are a limited edition set (unlike most sets these days). Eventually enough will be eaten/on players that left and enough new players will join that they will be worth something.

As for the Keith to Fawn comparison, I would MUCH rather have Fawn than Keith. Who cares if Keith does a LITTLE more damage? It is still 4* damage at the end of the day. I would rather get the speed of Fawn + knockback to clear the way for my real damage dealers. Plus you save DC with Fawn over Keith so you can deploy some beefier 5* or 6* units.

Part of the reason the Christmas units are so devalued comes from the low stats of the Christmas units on first presentation.

I won't comment any further on this since people already know my stance by now on low stats.

For those who don't know: He thinks they're sexy!

Me, I'd rather be safe than sorry so I like B more than C.

And about that 5 DC, it really depends on the situation. If that 5 DC is the difference between Hwrm and Heide, then it would be better to take the 11k hit in the fawn/keith exchange for the added damage in the hwrm/heide exchange.

But if that 5DC is the difference between Lucrezia and Sonia, I'd probably stand to keep keith and screw Sonia!

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BkWiz
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:49 pm

predator852 wrote:
BkWiz wrote:
themadmanazn wrote:
I don't think the low value of xmas units has anything to do with their arena performance. Some of the best arena cards aren't worth all that much. The 4x multiplier just made it so there are a ton of them. Give it time, they will rebound eventually since they are a limited edition set (unlike most sets these days). Eventually enough will be eaten/on players that left and enough new players will join that they will be worth something.

As for the Keith to Fawn comparison, I would MUCH rather have Fawn than Keith. Who cares if Keith does a LITTLE more damage? It is still 4* damage at the end of the day. I would rather get the speed of Fawn + knockback to clear the way for my real damage dealers. Plus you save DC with Fawn over Keith so you can deploy some beefier 5* or 6* units.

Part of the reason the Christmas units are so devalued comes from the low stats of the Christmas units on first presentation.

I won't comment any further on this since people already know my stance by now on low stats.

For those who don't know: He thinks they're sexy!

Me, I'd rather be safe than sorry so I like B more than C.

And about that 5 DC, it really depends on the situation. If that 5 DC is the difference between Hwrm and Heide, then it would be better to take the 11k hit in the fawn/keith exchange for the added damage in the hwrm/heide exchange.

But if that 5DC is the difference between Lucrezia and Sonia, I'd probably stand to keep keith and screw Sonia!

Cute yes, sexy no. Sad
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memphiskite
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:54 pm

BkWiz wrote:
predator852 wrote:
BkWiz wrote:


I won't comment any further on this since people already know my stance by now on low stats.

For those who don't know: He thinks they're sexy!

Cute yes, sexy no. Sad

ohohoho! Admit it, dude! Everyone knows I find Santa Debbie adorable! Razz
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BkWiz
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:05 pm

memphiskite wrote:
BkWiz wrote:
predator852 wrote:
BkWiz wrote:


I won't comment any further on this since people already know my stance by now on low stats.

For those who don't know: He thinks they're sexy!

Cute yes, sexy no. Sad

ohohoho! Admit it, dude! Everyone knows I find Santa Debbie adorable! Razz

I always wanted a girl with a gatling gun, wrapping paper for clothes, pointed teeth, and a maniacal gleam to her eyes. Twisted Evil
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memphiskite
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:31 pm

BkWiz wrote:
memphiskite wrote:
BkWiz wrote:
predator852 wrote:
BkWiz wrote:


I won't comment any further on this since people already know my stance by now on low stats.

For those who don't know: He thinks they're sexy!

Cute yes, sexy no. Sad

ohohoho! Admit it, dude! Everyone knows I find Santa Debbie adorable! Razz

I always wanted a girl with a gatling gun, wrapping paper for clothes, pointed teeth, and a maniacal gleam to her eyes. Twisted Evil

Hell yeah, she's some hot stu- Hey, wait a minute! I call dibs on her! :I
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duhmichael17



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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:29 pm

predator852 wrote:
BkWiz wrote:
themadmanazn wrote:
I don't think the low value of xmas units has anything to do with their arena performance. Some of the best arena cards aren't worth all that much. The 4x multiplier just made it so there are a ton of them. Give it time, they will rebound eventually since they are a limited edition set (unlike most sets these days). Eventually enough will be eaten/on players that left and enough new players will join that they will be worth something.

As for the Keith to Fawn comparison, I would MUCH rather have Fawn than Keith. Who cares if Keith does a LITTLE more damage? It is still 4* damage at the end of the day. I would rather get the speed of Fawn + knockback to clear the way for my real damage dealers. Plus you save DC with Fawn over Keith so you can deploy some beefier 5* or 6* units.

Part of the reason the Christmas units are so devalued comes from the low stats of the Christmas units on first presentation.

I won't comment any further on this since people already know my stance by now on low stats.

For those who don't know: He thinks they're sexy!

Me, I'd rather be safe than sorry so I like B more than C.

And about that 5 DC, it really depends on the situation. If that 5 DC is the difference between Hwrm and Heide, then it would be better to take the 11k hit in the fawn/keith exchange for the added damage in the hwrm/heide exchange.

But if that 5DC is the difference between Lucrezia and Sonia, I'd probably stand to keep keith and screw Sonia!

I agree the B speed is a nice perk, but either way, as was stated before, with the chance of a skill even going off, I'd rather have even just the 11k extra damage. Either way we'd have to actually have an arena event to see where Fawn really lands with his B speed.

Knockback isn't always the most useful skill. In the beginning, yes it's fantastic! It can clear out all of your enemies and let your units go first, and hopefully you can kill the enemy team before they even attack. However, it can also set up an entire row of 3 or even 5 enemies which can really hinder or even cause you to lose once you're up against strong teams in the higher ranks. I've had countless situations where knockback has saved me, but also many times where it has caused me to lose.

I also agree with the point about Lucrezia/Sonia, or whatever card you may be choosing between. You'd have to have some serious planning to have a perfect 100 DP team, and usually you'll end up just filling up slots with weaker cards. I have six 5*s, and though I obviously can't use all of them, I can only use 3 of them in my team if I still want to put 2 more in. Not to mention factoring in event cards.

As sleepybryan stated, I'm also pretty glad to see such differences in opinion. It makes for a more interesting event! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:15 am

I think i like slow since it brings up your units sooner o.o
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:20 am

FAWN WILL BUCK YOU UP!!! Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:24 am

BkWiz wrote:
memphiskite wrote:
BkWiz wrote:
predator852 wrote:
BkWiz wrote:


I won't comment any further on this since people already know my stance by now on low stats.

For those who don't know: He thinks they're sexy!

Cute yes, sexy no. Sad

ohohoho! Admit it, dude! Everyone knows I find Santa Debbie adorable! Razz

I always wanted a girl with a gatling gun, wrapping paper for clothes, pointed teeth, and a maniacal gleam to her eyes. Twisted Evil

I love my Debbie too Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:48 pm

With Fawn being 10 points of B speed knockback, it helps when you need that extra 5 points for something. The only 6*'s I have are all 25/30 points each so having some cheap units (Keith/Fawn/Kyo) really helps when filling out a team.
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PostSubject: Re: Xmas Cards Being Devalued Too Fast?   Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:29 pm

duhmichael17 wrote:
I've had countless situations where knockback has saved me, but also many times where it has caused me to lose.

I don't think having knockback itself can ever cause you to lose. Now, it's possible having something other than knockback would have given you the win, (or higher stats and no skill) but that row of guys would have simply hit/killed you earlier individuallike if you didn't have knockback. As far as I know there isn't any sort of combo bonus for attacking in a row.
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