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 Microcosm Rant about the game

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Br4dford
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PostSubject: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:21 pm

I will start this off by saying that I am not posting this to upset people, but reading through the event post I got really fed up with the complaining about the game and felt that I needed to share my thoughts/feelings.

I agree that 5m bt is unreal for a free player, I understand that Mobage/SS is really sticking it to the free players with their current line of updates. I have yet to spend money on this game, but probably will as I get some xmas money as it is my current flavor of the month.

That being said and out of the way let me get to the purpose of this post.

4 levels of players (guess of percentage of players. I wager the really PF population is closer to 70% and I am sure my money spent numbers are off as well)

Pure Free (PF)– 0$ spent – 50%
Low Payers (OTP) –-100$ spent - 30 %
Middle Payers (MP) – 100-500$ spent – 15%
Top Payers (TP) – +500$ spent – 5%

PF players are complaining that the new bt rewards are unreachable for them. Well maybe they should be difficult to get for PF players. The purpose of this game is to get you in with the free tag then hit you up for cash for better in game items. For SS/Mobage they do a great job of this, the game is fun to play, but if you want to be competitive you need to pay. There should not be equality among all of the players. Period. If you paid for a new car and then found out someone got it for free how upset would you be regardless of their sacrifices to get it? Sure you can make the argument that it should be closer to equal, but why would SS/Mobage listen? I would assume that the TP support all of the costs associated with the game plus a majority of the profits. From a business perspective the game really needs to focus on two groups MP and TP. These two groups make up a majority of their income. Again the argument can be made that who would challenge these people for the top ranks if it weren’t for free players? Why themselves of course SS/Mobage has gotten all they need from the PF players. They got a high rating in the stores, 400k downloads and now a big enough MP and TP group to support themselves. What they are doing now is turning the game to favor those two groups and to get the other groups to start spending money.

One could draw a parallel between the in game world to the real world. You have 5% or so supporting about 50% or more of the rest of the population (government programs ie: taxes, charities). Some in that bottom 50% are grateful for what they are given and are working hard to move up. Some in that 50% are demanding more because they feel that they are owed it and don’t want to work too hard for it.

This all makes sense in my head and when I read it back it still makes sense, but if it doesn’t I will be around to clarify or explain.

Again, I don’t mean this to offend anyone and Mods please feel free to take it down or lock it if you think it does.
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Callanthe
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:53 pm

As a PF player (so far anyway, since I've only been playing for a little over a week), I don't mind that a lot of the rewards are unreachable without a ridiculous amount of effort. Paying players deserve an advantage for supporting this game. However, I feel that if Mobage made it feel more rewarding to spend money, I would actually do so. As it is right now, I am more than a little annoyed at the way Mobage treats us (ex: premium tickets, an unreachable 5* reward, the actual chances of getting great cards from boxes). Fantasica is a great game, but looking at the actual profit one would get from spending large amounts of money, why would I want to go so far if I would get comparatively little out of it?

Ideally, a game should be appealing to all sorts of players, whether free or paying. And we as players should support a game we love, not because we have to in order to have any chance whatsoever of competing. I spent money on another free-to-play game because I love the way they treat us (even though that game only gives purely aesthetic rewards for spending money).

P.S. just an fyi, I don't really like your real-world parallel. It seems a little out of place (and kind of reminiscent of, say, Mitt Romney's 47% comment Razz).
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:08 pm

I think the issue here is that the level of greed from SS is clearly showing from this event and that people want to pin point this observation into this single event. Truth be told, I'm not too concerned about this event but I was annoyed with what they did with premium packs.

Although if they're going to raise Matahari's bt cost when the ToSaM comes out, I might as well stop doing events altogether unless it involves tradable items.
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aszutai
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:10 pm

While I agree with most of your points, I completely understand the feeling of those that was ranting in the Christmas event thread. Heck, I probably would of whined a bit more if I was actually looking forward to take part in the event. That being said, I'm a MP, and honestly the only type of player this event favors is the TP. Which pisses me off a bit; again, nothing against the top players, they paid and played like hell to get their rank, so they deserved every last bit of it (aside from a few hackers).

I'm just worried about the current path this game is going down in will result in a huge drop off in the playerbase eventually, I've invested too much time and money into the game to see them screwing up like this. I want it to do well, and do well for the long term; I wish to see the player base grow and more people enjoy the game as much as those of us on this forum have. The recent chain of updates though while totally make sense from a short term profit prespective, for long term health of the game I feel is very bad for the game.

I was planning on maybe spending more Moba Coins had Debbie be more reachable, I wouldn't mind throwing $100-200 to obtain her, if you ask me the whole point of setting up a bt reward is to throw a bone at the FP to MP playerbase, not to slap them across the face with it. Honestly the soul hunter event already left a bit of bad taste in my mouth. Elizabeth costed me over $200 and 300+ pots to get >_>; If that's the future course of the game, I might just keep my stack of cash and see how the game does long term before I throw down several hundred more dollar on the upcoming events like Palace of Life and Death, Mansion of Machines etc... -_-;

Edit:

While we're at it, might as well make this the whining thread so all the rant could go here >_>
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:16 pm

^This

I said it once and I'll say it again, RoB was going the same trend as Fantasica a couple of months back. It took a mass leaving of a lot of the player base for them to become much less greedy with their practices.

The point I'm trying to make is that FPs should progress in the game for a reasonable amount of time put in the game. Instead, they've been completely barring free players from attaining anything of value in the game anymore.


Last edited by Blargod on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Br4dford
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:38 pm

Callanthe wrote:

P.S. just an fyi, I don't really like your real-world parallel. It seems a little out of place (and kind of reminiscent of, say, Mitt Romney's 47% comment Razz).

I agree it seems a little out of place but I think I was making it as a comment about the mentality of the world as it is now. People want Free for no/little work and expect other people to foot the bill. I dont necessarily think this is a perfect example, but i just wanted to draw attention to the connection
Blargod wrote:
I think the issue here is that the level of greed from SS is clearly showing from this event and that people want to pin point this observation into this single event. Truth be told, I'm not too concerned about this event but I was annoyed with what they did with premium packs.

Although if they're going to raise Matahari's bt cost when the ToSaM comes out, I might as well stop doing events altogether unless it involves tradable items.

I agree with this completely. It is definitely greed on the part of the company. I would imagine if they get some PF players to stop playing they see this as a win.

You either pay or quit
Otherwise you are just
Sucking bandwidth
A little Poem Smile

I also agree with your ToSaM comment, I will probably stop playing at that point.

Blargod wrote:
The point I'm trying to make is that FPs should progress in the game for a reasonable amount of time put in the game. Instead, they've been completely barring free players from attaining anything of value in the game anymore.

I think the problem there again is that there is no real end game to progress through besides getting new cards.

As a PF player who can put some time in to the game i can easily rank in the 500-1000 range, which is just outside of most of the good 5* rewards.
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:47 pm

Br4dford wrote:

I think the problem there again is that there is no real end game to progress through besides getting new cards.

As a PF player who can put some time in to the game i can easily rank in the 500-1000 range, which is just outside of most of the good 5* rewards.

There are ways to apply an end-game; they're just too lazy and greedy to do so. They can just try to copy the guild vs guild concept from other Japanese mobile CCGs although they'll have to tweak it quite a bit. The closest we have to an end-game is the arena event and it's pretty bland in comparison to other games (In fact, I'm in it just for the tradable items).
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rotarywhiz
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:21 pm

I can't say I totally agree with the original post and this is why, most PF players rarely rank very high in most events, sure there are some exceptions but they are a very small percentage. I for one can't imagine getting 1mil bt in an event without spending money so I don't even try and I feel again that alot of PF players think the same way. So in essence if you raise the prize from 1 mil bt to 5 mil bt who are you really going to affect? The PF players that couldn't reach 1 mil bt to begin with or the guys paying money to get to 1 mil bt. I believe the answer is you are screwing over the guys that already pay by causing them to pay even more, and I don't think its very smart to bite the hand that feeds you.
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predator852
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:09 pm

I agree with what a lot of everyone said here. There are certain changes that Mobage/SS is making overall to make the game almost impossible to enjoy freely. I'm a MP, and I don't like that I have to be. This is a game that I've found that I like to spend a lot of time with, but that does not mean I want to spend so much on it! Honestly, things get a little crazy when you see the most expensive box is $30!! I would say $15 for the premium mega box is more than reasonable!

The nerfing of the premium tickets and Debbie's 5mil cost are not only a slap in the face to free players, but they're a big turnoff to anyone whose not a top player.

I spent $250 on the soul hunters event, and Almost didn't stay in the top 200! I'll never spend that much again! I haven't spent any money on the current event because it's a waste of time.

I think SS needs to rethink their angle here. As more players stop paying/pay less/quit, the game will get less exciting for everyone. Why do I want a premuim ticket every week if it does nothing good for me?

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Tashego
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:05 pm

I'm an OTP and I really agree with most of this but another point that was stated earlier is that their greed is really showing now. I haven't been playing since the start of the game but I don't think that most panel events need 5 mil (which would cost about 1200$ according to one of the top players that has Debbie) for a 6*. Sure the 6* is a very strong one but it is only really guaranteed for those who spend a ridiculous amount of money or A high amount + Lots of grinding when it really shouldn't since panel events allow free players to get a great card because in most events they will get steamrolled.

I'm not complaining about the whole "I won't be able to get Debbie wah" but the fact that it's very hard for free players to even progress through the game due to these changes and also Top Players because they'll have to spend even more money for these events which isn't what Mobage/SS should be doing. Free players will barely even reach the cut for the 5* and a lot won't even make it to that. I'm just worried that this will get worse in the future to the point where they *shivers* charge you to play.

Well I don't really care so much about getting the 6* but I hope I can get Ivy atleast. I just hope they stop making changes such as the premium ticket cut or luring in money by putting Aragon in the poster.

Also I'm kinda annoyed with all the people badmouthing TP even though I'm not one because like they're the reason the game is advancing and without them we wouldn't even be on the third or second panel until later today or tomorrow. Like if they want to spend money on the game let them it's not your decision to judge them for paying for what they like ._.

Ooh but I like that post about the guilds or w.e that would be interesting to see in Fantasica ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:21 pm

This event actually was the straw that broke the camel's back for my wife. She quit today giving me all of her stuff Sad. To be honest panel events have always been bullshit for free players this is nothing new. Anybody remember FoA1? ONLY top 10 got the prize.Everybody else? 1 3*, 1 4*, and some premium tickets.... Sadly I have to say this one is much better than FoA1&2. At least its a top 50 prize.
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predator852
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:43 pm

the3ptsling wrote:
This event actually was the straw that broke the camel's back for my wife. She quit today giving me all of her stuff Sad. To be honest panel events have always been bullshit for free players this is nothing new. Anybody remember FoA1? ONLY top 10 got the prize.Everybody else? 1 3*, 1 4*, and some premium tickets.... Sadly I have to say this one is much better than FoA1&2. At least its a top 50 prize.

You're correct, free players do get overlooked consistantly when it comes to panel events, and I'm so sorry to hear about your wife quitting, I know playing w/someone you know makes it that much funner! but although this event is comparably better than FOA1&2, I don't think the state of the game economy and mechanics are. Thats what's killing me. The huge step their taking from F2P to F2Try and decide if you want to play...

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Whenesday
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:58 pm

the3ptsling wrote:
This event actually was the straw that broke the camel's back for my wife. She quit today giving me all of her stuff Sad. To be honest panel events have always been bullshit for free players this is nothing new. Anybody remember FoA1? ONLY top 10 got the prize.Everybody else? 1 3*, 1 4*, and some premium tickets.... Sadly I have to say this one is much better than FoA1&2. At least its a top 50 prize.


=( that will be such a major downer for you..

And yeap this event currently is way way better compared to FOA1. No 5*/6* rewards for hitting BT milestones and only 10 spots for the 6*, no 5* for rank rewards. Fifty top spots for 6* is such a big difference compared to the previous panel rewards.

Honestly, this is all expected and has always been that way, so I'm not sure why the sudden influx of negative views on it. The only thing I can think about is removing premium tickets as a source of event tickets, which does have quite an impact on free players.
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aszutai
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:09 am

Whenesday wrote:
the3ptsling wrote:
This event actually was the straw that broke the camel's back for my wife. She quit today giving me all of her stuff Sad. To be honest panel events have always been bullshit for free players this is nothing new. Anybody remember FoA1? ONLY top 10 got the prize.Everybody else? 1 3*, 1 4*, and some premium tickets.... Sadly I have to say this one is much better than FoA1&2. At least its a top 50 prize.


=( that will be such a major downer for you..

And yeap this event currently is way way better compared to FOA1. No 5*/6* rewards for hitting BT milestones and only 10 spots for the 6*, no 5* for rank rewards. Fifty top spots for 6* is such a big difference compared to the previous panel rewards.

Honestly, this is all expected and has always been that way, so I'm not sure why the sudden influx of negative views on it. The only thing I can think about is removing premium tickets as a source of event tickets, which does have quite an impact on free players.

I think it has more to do with the addition of the 5* and 6* bt rewards, honestly it probably would of been better if they just shove them in as rank reward instead of BT reward. I feel like the negativity would of been a lot less had that been the case. It's one thing to do the same boring event again, it's another to get everyone excited about the event and then put most of the rewards out of reach unless your player base shoves out several hundred dollar each for the rewards. Kind of like showing a carrot, and then dangle it so high most people couldn't reach it. Come on, it freaking christmas for crying out loud -_-;

All in all, it's a combination of factors, but I feel like all this negativity (including my own) is more emotional than logical. Is it justified? Not all of it but I do feel like Mobage's trying to screw me over >_>;
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Evageek
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:02 am


What bothers me more is the rarity of cards. Instead of buying black ops 2- or any new game- I bought 3 premium packs with no 5* or 6* to show for it. with that money I could of bought the game and those silly map packs. I use to complain about DLC, but damn, this game can cut you deep and not give 2 shits about you.
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:31 am

I have to agree that SS seem to have set the bar too high for this event and discouraged OTP and MP Players from spending by doing so.

I will generally buy a mega box or an event pack at the start of an event to try and get an event card. I would be willing to buy more if I thought I had a hope in hell to get the 6* from the BT reward (I accept that there are enough TP out there that are willing to pay a lot more than I am to claim the rank rewards so I don't have a shot). However as I know that I have not got a chance of hitting 5mil I doubt that I will bother buying anymore this event. If they had set it to 1.5mil or even 2mil it would encourage the those players with less funds to spare to spend a little more, keep the PF players hooked in the hope of grinding up enough BT and the TP will continue to pay as much as normal to get the ranking rewards.

Hopefully they will see this for future events.

I have to say that I am also disappointed with low yield of 5* & 6* in the mega packs. Players spending money should be rewarded for spending, because if they aren't they will just stop spending!

I enjoy the game and play it almost exclusively at the moment but if I don't have a chance to progress I will get bored and find something else to spend my time and money on. If SS continue to set rewards which are out of the reach of the majority of players and low reward yields for time and money spent the only result will be that players will decide to find something else.
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Sethala
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:59 am

While I didn't really care much for the last panel event, what bugs me about this one is that there's no actual reward for me to keep doing it. The best I can hope for right now is a few premium tickets and non-tradeable TEs (which, by the way, are a pretty big slap in the face to free players). If they had made Ivy somewhat reasonable to obtain, I would have done a lot more in the event to get her. Now though, I'm pretty much done with the event.

And it doesn't really help that the panels look like they won't even be uncovered by the end, unless Mobage nerfs how much BT we need to unlock the rest of them.

I think one thing that would have helped a lot here is if they made the wish tickets tradeable. If that were the case, i would have put a lot more focus on quests and started buying them up so I could get to Ivy. Without that though, there's really no point in them.
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:57 am

I agree with mostly all points expressed in this thread so far.

I don't like this event one bit. The rewards are too difficult to achieve and the mega boxes don't give nearly enough reawrd to be worth it. I generally think (though its not a requirement) Christmas events are to attract both new and old players to play their app during the holiday season which would normally be spent with family. What this event is doing is inhibiting new players chances of acturally getting anything useful while shunning dedicated players.

All this seems like work rather then fun. I didn't know I would have two jobs during this christmas season. lol

I am sure there will be those who say that we don't have to pay, we don't have to spend every 5 minutes glugged to our phones. And you know what they are right. We don't have to pay, we don't have to participate, we don't have to play during lousey events that are coming more fequently. And I feel more people are realizing this, I included.

But Thank you for giving me an avenue to vent, I needed it. By the end of the event I will get Ivy with out paying, just because I want to. After wards, I don't know if I will particiapte in other difficult events like this one again.
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Milodalich



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PostSubject: Totally agree   Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:27 pm

rotarywhiz wrote:
I can't say I totally agree with the original post and this is why, most PF players rarely rank very high in most events, sure there are some exceptions but they are a very small percentage. I for one can't imagine getting 1mil bt in an event without spending money so I don't even try and I feel again that alot of PF players think the same way. So in essence if you raise the prize from 1 mil bt to 5 mil bt who are you really going to affect? The PF players that couldn't reach 1 mil bt to begin with or the guys paying money to get to 1 mil bt. I believe the answer is you are screwing over the guys that already pay by causing them to pay even more, and I don't think its very smart to bite the hand that feeds you.

Roatary! Well said

I am a PF
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Microcosm Rant about the game   Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:43 pm

rotarywhiz wrote:
I believe the answer is you are screwing over the guys that already pay by causing them to pay even more, and I don't think its very smart to bite the hand that feeds you.

They're taking paying customers to the cleaners. I think it makes sense for them considering how much money people are throwing at the game despite the low value for your money.

They're essentially maximizing profit although they're setting themselves for failure should crap hit the ceiling fan.
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