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 Albuming, Scams and The Safelist

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palapesca



Join date : 2012-11-11
Posts : 70

PostSubject: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:20 pm

About Album Swapping, Scamming, and Safety Measures:

Jump to: Albuming Ettiquette
Jump to: How Do I Get a Scammer Listed as Confirmed?
Jump to: Scenarios
Jump to: Positive Experiences List
Jump to: Confirmed Scammers
Jump to: Unconfirmed Scammers

What is Album Swapping?

Album swapping is one way of filling in the cards listed in your album. If you click Profile, then View Album, you can see the cards that are in your album. To get a card into your album, you have to have it in possession once. This is where album swapping comes in.

So how do I Album?

If you want to album a card, you can ask another player to "album." What happens is, they trade you the card you need for your album, and you trade them a card of similar value. After you trade cards, you will take the card out of your inbox (this is when it gets added to your album), and then you will trade it back. Using this method, you can add cards to your album, and you don't need to buy the cards you are missing. This also means that people don't have to sell you ones that you need, which is often nice for them, too.

Why do I give them a card?

When a person lets you album a card, they are taking a risk. Maybe you won't give the card back, maybe you'll just keep it. To protect themselves from being taken advantage of, many people will ask you to trade them a card that is worth more than the card you want to borrow. This card is held as proof that you will trade their card back, which is what they really want to happen.

So why not just trade cards? Why trade back?

You can just trade cards, if that's what you want to do. You may find that some cards are really hard to trade for, though; maybe the card is too expensive for you to buy, or maybe it's a rare card, so you can't find anyone willing to sell it. Or maybe you don't want to own the card permanently, because it's not a very good card.

What happens if I let someone album a card, but they don't trade it back to me?

Typically what happens is you lose that card forever. This is why it's important to ask for collateral. The collateral doesn't have to be equal value with the card(s) you're lending, and it doesn't have to be a card that you would normally trade for. Just know that some people out there may try to take advantage of you, and if you do get scammed, be holding on to enough value as collateral so that you don't want to quit playing the game.

What if I try to album swap with someone, and everything works out okay?

Congratulations! Now you have a unit added to your album that you didn't before. Feels good, right? Consider lending cards out to other players who need to fill their albums. Tell the person who let you borrow their card(s) how much you love them. Come here and let us know, too; I'll add them to the Positive Experiences List, and friendly, positive traders can see that they are kindhearted people.



Always strive to leave the world a better place than you found it.

PLUR


Last edited by palapesca on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:03 pm; edited 10 times in total
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:20 pm

Albuming Etiquette and Tips:

None of these are rules, just a collection of good ideas.

  • If you are asking to album swap, offer cards of greater total value than what you are asking to borrow. You are asking for a favour, so you should take the risk. It also helps build trust with the person lending you the cards.

  • If you're lending cards, know that anyone can scam you, including allies. A good rule is to not swap for anything you would be miserable keeping. You don't have to be excited about the prospects of it becoming a trade, just know that some people suck.

  • Before you lend someone cards, check their level. The higher their level is, the more time they've put into the game and slightly lowers the risk of them scamming you.

  • Before you lend someone cards, check their rare card report. On their wall, click on their leader; at the bottom of the popup window, you'll see a row that says, "Last Rare Card Report:" If there's a card listed it's almost guaranteed to be from them purchasing a card pack with real money. This also slightly lowers the risk of them scamming you and tarnishing their reputation.

  • If someone "scams" you, make sure you've actually been cheated before telling everyone about it (i.e: Make sure it isn't something innocent like their phone dying, etc.). Remember, no one likes being accused of theft; think about how you'd feel if you were on the other side of an innocent misunderstanding.

  • If someone has really scammed you, try to have screenshots of your conversations (before and after), or any other form of proof.

  • If you have a successful swap, let people know about it. Shout the person out to your allies. Post on their wall telling them how awesome they are. Come on here a leave a post about your wonderful experience. Positivity reinforces future positivity.


Last edited by palapesca on Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:21 pm; edited 9 times in total
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:20 pm

How Do I Get a Scammer Listed as Confirmed?

If you think you've been scammed, please do not post here until you're sure that's what has happened. No one likes being wrongly accused of something, so let's do what we can to avoid that.

If you know you've been scammed, but can't prove it, feel free to post in this thread but know that I will only list the scammer in the "unconfirmed" list. To make it onto that list, there has to be a story that sounds like you've been legitimately scammed, and it's not just a simple misunderstanding (for example, their phone died and you panicked).

To get on the confirmed list, there needs to be physical proof of the album arrangement. This can be a screenshot you've taken of your conversation in game. It can also be an in-forum post. It must be something that shows a deal was made with the intent of it being an album swap, and a two way conversation after the swap proving that the cards were not traded back.


Last edited by palapesca on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:27 pm; edited 3 times in total
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:21 pm

Scenarios:

I sent a trade to someone but they won't accept! How do I get my cards back?

This is known as tradelocking and is usually not intentional. When the other player responds, the deal will either confirm, cancel, or be sent back to you, depending what stage it's at. If the other player does not respond, the trade will be canceled in two days. Unfortunately there's no way to cancel it yourself; you have to wait for action on their part.

I traded someone my best cards and they gave me really bad ones! CHEATER!!

No one can force you to accept a trade. The only way for you this to happen is for you to agree to it.You can accidentally click Confirm to a trade you don't like, but you still have to click Confirm.

Someone has my cards, and they won't trade them back!

Have you tried talking to the person? Have they responded to you? Is it possible their phone died, or real life intervened?

I traded someone a good card as collateral and now they're giving me a bad card back!

Sometimes people have multiple trades going on, and forget who gave them what. Before calling them a scammer, tell them that you were given the wrong card back; maybe it was an honest mistake, and they will send you the proper card.

I borrowed a card from someone and traded it back, but now they're calling me a cheater! wtf?

This one doesn't happen often, but it's exactly why I won't add someone to the "confirmed scammer" list unless acceptable proof is shown. No one likes being called a cheater/scammer/thief.


Last edited by palapesca on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:45 pm; edited 6 times in total
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:21 pm

Positive Experiences List:

All that being on this list means is that someone said you were a good person. If you use this list to verify traders, be aware that no proof is required to be on the list, and follow safe albuming practices.

Forum name | Player ID | In-game name
bobchuti | 32830904 | bobchuti
Bunny-61 | 50148914 | Bunny-61
frigidwind | 44957366 | frigidwind
Jana198709 | 51786102 | Jana198709
luvdapeace | 31466445 | luvdapeace
MajinKoba | 44864232 | majinkoba
Mellow | 35895497 | asdfg9918
rogaroga | 54030741 | rogaroga
Shokkeru | 28207409 | Shokkeru
Stoire | 52339761 | Stoire
Thyruz | 51126845 | realpegasuz
valiante | 49519692 | milliummonkey
??? | 53200012 | cot628
??? | 53796818 | hellome832
??? | 57100577 | Lyorin
??? | 50673675 | mamal384
??? | 51216001 | rollunt
??? | 53123954 | sadik90
??? | 51061193 | tonenjeydi
??? | 25238438 | WiskiDave


Last edited by palapesca on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:13 pm; edited 11 times in total
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:21 pm

Confirmed Scammers:

To make this list you must have ripped someone off, and they provided in game screenshots before and after an album swap proving you're a douche.

Yay it's empty!


Last edited by palapesca on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:00 pm; edited 3 times in total
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:24 pm

Unconfirmed Scammers:

To make this list someone must provide exact details about the trade you made, how you responded at attempts to get their cards back, and preferably posts on their wall or yours backing up the claim. You may be innocent, but there was more to the story than just "omg I got scammed put them on a list!!!1!"

SexyKunny, ID 48588344
Lent a 11 Fatima 4* for a 77 Gremory and 100 Sofia
Responded to return trade with 1000 Luna, instead of borrowed cards
Cut off communications afterwards
Likely a dummy account


Last edited by palapesca on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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sharpyzu
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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:36 pm

I support this idea.

I always doubt when people say they've been scammed. Accusation is easy, but the amount of damage done to the accused could be very well undeserved.

Real scammers probably use dummy accounts like you said, and even if someone scammed before, we can always hope that they will repent and change, but if you add them to a bad list, it makes it really hard for them to do so.


I will give a true story of myself here.

It was back in 2006-2007. I was really addicted to a game. I was in a nice little guild, not anywhere near the best, but it was a nice guild, with nice people. I had asked my guildmates for a loan. I think the size of the loan would be comparable to something like 1500-2000TE in fantasica, so it was quite a sizable loan.

However, through some events that I no longer remember, I lost all the money I borrowed. Furthermore, because of some other events that I also don't remember, I couldn't log onto the game for months. I had borrowed the money in anticipation for the christmas event in december '06, but it is now April '07 and I didn't return the money or say anything to my guildmates. I felt so guilty, that I was too scared to log in to the game. Fast forward to around september '07. It's been 9 months, I wasn't even sure if the people who loaned me the money still played. Yet the guilt is really unbearable. I'd wake up sometimes, reminded that I still had debt to be repaid.

So I finally decided to get the money back. I started farming really hard, and finally managed to get back that money in december. I logged back on to my old account, and guess what, I wasn't even kicked out of my guild! The people who loaned me the money didn't accuse me of scamming or anything like that. I was able to return the money to them (sadly I got really bored of the game after intense farming and quit right after).
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:46 pm

I started this thread because I have an ally who just lost two cards to a scammer.

He traded a level 77 Gremory and a level 100 Sofia for a 4* Level 11 Fatima collateral unit, and when he tried to trade the collateral back the other player responded with a 1k Luna trade offer, repeatedly, and then cut off communication.

The player in question is SexyKunny, ID 48588344.


This is not an uncommon story, so be warned that these kinds of people are out there, and try to not album swap for deals that would make you miserable if they came true.


Last edited by palapesca on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:51 pm

sharpyzu wrote:
even if someone scammed before, we can always hope that they will repent and change, but if you add them to a bad list, it makes it really hard for them to do so.
I plan on filling out one of the reserved posts with guidelines to making accusations, and I have split the lists into "confirmed" and "unconfirmed" for exactly that reason.

No one likes being accused of something, even when the accusation is fair, so the idea is to only be shaming people when the benefit to the community will outweigh the drama and hurt feelings.



Thanks for sharing the story.
I try to treat people the same way your guildmates treated you, but you'll notice that in your story, you felt bad, and you wanted to right your wrongs (whether they were actually your fault or not).
I think if an album scammer returned cards, that'd be a good enough reason to remove them from the lists, no?
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:46 pm

I'm happy with what this looks like, for now.
If you've got something you'd like to see added/improved/reworded, let me know.

Happy trading!
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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:49 pm

I would like to see "evidence" for positive experiences list.

For example, a list of names for people who albumed successfully with these people, with the highest number of supporters being at the top of the list with the number.

Otherwise Anyone can just say they're not a scammer.
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:51 am

I considered doing it that way, then realized that a person will show up on both lists if they're a known scammer.

I wouldn't mind having "proof" that good trades are good trades, but I'd rather have that list be accessible.
I can include names, but I can also see it getting out of hand quickly (being hard to maintain).




Just think of what a medium sized list would look like if I also included the names of every person who approved of each trader, and you'll see what I mean.
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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:36 am

It was a while back, but my first album trade was an amazing one with Bunny-61 (50148914).

She wanted to album my Sonia and offered Mihiro as collateral. After that she asked if there was anything else I wanted to album. She traded probably 30-40 3* and 4* cards, 5 at a time, so I could get started on my albuming without asking for anything as collateral.


Instead of listing the names of everyone who reports a successfully albuming experience, you could keep track of that on your computer or in a google doc and just post the count here in the thread.

A couple other things you could put in your guide:

1. Check the player's level. The higher their level the more time they've put into the game and slightly lowers the risk of them scamming you.

2. Check their rare card report. If there's a card listed it's almost guaranteed to be from them purchasing a card pack with real money. This also slightly lowers the risk of them scamming you and tarnishing their reputation.

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Sethala
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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:04 pm

I want to say a quick thanks to valiante on the forums here for letting me album his Witch. Not sure if you want stories from the people getting cards to album or only from people giving the cards, but I figured I'd hop on here anyway.
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:59 pm

Kadaan wrote:
Instead of listing the names of everyone who reports a successfully albuming experience, you could keep track of that on your computer or in a google doc and just post the count here in the thread.
The risk of me doing it on my computer is losing interest, or bias. A Google doc sounds like a good plan, but I don't want ownership of it. It could be an open one, but then runs into the same issues you were wanting to get away from.

But if this is something you want to start, great!


Basically, I like the idea of being able to come look at a list and say, "28 people trust this guy, must be a safe bet loaning him some cards," but don't want my life to revolve around a spreadsheet for one game that most people who play the game may never even come to know exists. Razz


Also, thanks for the tips!
Added them to the appropriate post.

Kadaan wrote:
2. Check their rare card report.
I didn't even realize people had individual reports.


Sethala wrote:
Not sure if you want stories from the people getting cards to album or only from people giving the cards, but I figured I'd hop on here anyway.
Completely up to the people reading; this thread here is for everybody. I started it off with the albuming guide/etiquette/scam awareness sections, and then the Good and the Bad lists, but beyond that it's up to the community. If anyone has anything they wanted added to those first posts I'll edit it in.
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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:52 pm

I let MajinKoba album a couple of cards during the Halloween event for no collat (they were 4*'s, he'd been my ally for a while, we had shared some convos etc.) and he albumed+sent back.

I usually don't album but I made an exception for him.

So (if I read this right) there's an "Okay to let album" list somewhere, and I think it's safe to say this testimony allows him to go on there! I'm pretty sure he's on the forum under the same name, and his ID is 44864232

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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:43 pm

Stoire and I have albumed back and forth a couple of times without equal collateral and there's never been a problem.

Same with Shokkeru.
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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:49 pm

I recommend that you remove the "safe list" and force users to "prove" with screencaps or other evidence (No Kik) if you are to have a "Scammer's List".

Idyllically, a "safe list" is great, however; it's fairly simple for someone to amass trust, then walk away with an even greater amount of rare cards than if they were to not be trusted at all.

I believe that I'll keep this open until I have any reason to suspect that it isn't functional or provides easier targets for scamming.

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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:27 am

Crowex wrote:
Idyllically, a "safe list" is great, however; it's fairly simple for someone to amass trust, then walk away with an even greater amount of rare cards than if they were to not be trusted at all.

This.
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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:25 pm

Crowex wrote:
Idyllically, a "safe list" is great, however; it's fairly simple for someone to amass trust, then walk away with an even greater amount of rare cards than if they were to not be trusted at all.
Agreed, but I also have a few posts above the list reminding you to not make a trade you'd be miserable with if it became permanent. This list of positive trades requires no proof; that does not stop someone from making a list that does. Ultimately you could get scammed from someone on either type of list.

Being on a positive list is no guarantee, but if that list is your starting point, and then you see that people on there have a higher player level than 90 or so, people on their wall are positive, and they offer collateral of similar value, that's about as safe as you're gonna get.

The positive experiences list is not a guarantee, it's a pushstart for people to trust albuming again. The tips and scenarios posts are reminders to be trusting, but not stupid.

Crowex wrote:
I recommend that you remove the "safe list" and force users to "prove" with screencaps or other evidence (No Kik) if you are to have a "Scammer's List".
The idea is you'd need more detail than just "I got scammed" to get someone on the unconfirmed list, and to put someone on the confirmed list you'd need before and after in game screenshots proving that the trade was to be an album swap that went sour.

I changed the name of the "safe" list to better reflect that you're never truly safe. Added a disclaimer to the top of all three lists, too, for people who follow a link in (like the ones in my sig).
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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:19 pm

I don't know.... I would feel very uncomfortable about having my name show up on a list that says I'm trustworthy. It would make me feel like a constant target for those scammers who think they can get away with outsmarting me or the others on that list.

Confidentiality is a powerful tool against everyone to protect yourself from those you don't wish to be associated with and it's something I appreciate a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:43 pm

memphiskite wrote:
I don't know.... I would feel very uncomfortable about having my name show up on a list that says I'm trustworthy. It would make me feel like a constant target for those scammers who think they can get away with outsmarting me or the others on that list.

Confidentiality is a powerful tool against everyone to protect yourself from those you don't wish to be associated with and it's something I appreciate a lot.

^
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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:05 pm

This is a nice collection of ideas and all, but when dealing with albuming, each person must weigh in their own concerns when doing so. Each person is in charge of their own cards dealing fair trades for album, weather they be on the high end or low end of the trade.

If some one gets scammed, its their own fault. Those scammed can not hold Mobage, forums, or individuals accountable for their own misplacement of trust.

I like the idea of this thread, I just hope everyone acts intellegently when doing trades. This is hard to do when children and adults both play on this same feild.

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palapesca



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PostSubject: Re: Albuming, Scams and The Safelist   Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:57 pm

memphiskite wrote:
I don't know.... I would feel very uncomfortable about having my name show up on a list that says I'm trustworthy. It would make me feel like a constant target for those scammers who think they can get away with outsmarting me or the others on that list.

Confidentiality is a powerful tool against everyone to protect yourself from those you don't wish to be associated with and it's something I appreciate a lot.

Hadn't really thought of that side, and it's fair.
That said I can't help noticing your player ID listed below your avatar, which tells me you're only so attached to confidentiality.
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