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 Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]

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Wheatmidge



Join date : 2012-10-01
Posts : 106

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:13 am

predator852 wrote:
I've been hearing all over that H Helmut is attacking on par with some C speed units ( Sheryl was the example I think I heard...or Sonia...IDK for sure please dont kill me) I havent spent much time with my Helmut and was wondering if anyone could confirm/refute that claim and if it's true I wanted to know if Clocks and S had a way to account for that when they place him or will he just get the same treatment as other E speed units, just out of curiosity.

In my testing H Helmut is faster than the other E speed units, but he isn't quite as fast as Sonia. Overall he probably shouldn't be a E anymore but should probably be a D.
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blive4000



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:27 pm

is this or dnonamus' the more reliable priority list of units for arena events? i guess specifically i am wondering how dmg is calculated for a unit in arenas. is it based on cumulative dmg, highest stat, just ground dmg, or does it go by that priority ratio listed in this thread.

Just confused with all the conflicting info floating out there.
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:40 pm

I don't think anyone knows completely how damage is calculated in arena. The formula is close but not on 100%

Clocks was working on an arena ranking list, but I don't think she completed it.
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blive4000



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:45 pm

Thanks
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xl_astros_lx



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:02 am

When are the new units getting added? I pulled a Lilly, no clue how good she is.
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Wheatmidge



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:21 am

Clocks seems to be MIA.
The Japanese wiki has the stats.

http://w.livedoor.jp/fantasica/d/%a5%b7%a5%ea%a1%bc%a5%ba%a5%ac%a5%c1%a5%e3%20%c0%b5%b5%c1%a5%b7%a5%ea%a1%bc%a5%ba

I think in general Lily is a stronger version of Sonia and she seems quite sought after. I don't really know where in the tiers that is.
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xl_astros_lx



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:07 am

Thanks. She seems to be the best of the new 5*s.
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snappycow
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:09 am

I think Lily's slightly below Werewolf? Lily has about 6K more Land attack but WW has 18k more in Air >ω<
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:34 am

snappycow wrote:
I think Lily's slightly below Werewolf? Lily has about 6K more Land attack but WW has 18k more in Air >ω<

She also attacks more slowly than WW and Victoria (she has an attack delay of 0.75, while the other two have 0.6). Her price dropped from 200 te to an asking price of 190 te in just one day and the event hasn't even started yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if her price drops to the low 100s by the end of the Amazon event.
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snappycow
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:36 am

I'm in no rush to get her, I'll probably wait until after the event, when she's as plentiful as Princesses or DBs XD

For now, a maxed Keith will do the trick ;P
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Blargod
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:38 am

snappycow wrote:
I'm in no rush to get her, I'll probably wait until after the event, when she's as plentiful as Princesses or DBs XD

For now, a maxed Keith will do the trick ;P

Yeah, Keith is actually the best deal out of all the cards in their respective tiers/rarity Smile

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brokenchicken
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:23 pm

Lily will drop some due to overbuying, but she won't drop to Dream Breaker levels just because she's by far the best 5* in this batch. You can compare her to Victoria with higher stats or Bernhard plus Knockback, and since both Victoria and Bernhard are rated well, Lily will be right up there. As noted, she's a little below Werewolf, but she should be given ease of acquisition.

Melissa is the one who's a Sonia analogue; a little slower, very slightly higher stats. Not awful but not great either.

Claude is not very impressive. Gremory was disappointing for her rare-reward status; Claude is Gremory minus ten thousand in stats. If anyone drops to 30-50 TE levels from this batch, he will.

Seth is quite close to Saki all-around and will likely tier similarly.

Among Area Attack 4 units, Guy has the best total stats, the best ground attack and a spectacular 200 range. Slow as molasses, though.

Finally, Keith. Take Agnes, slow her down to C, give her a tiny air attack and a sex change. If Agnes and Anton had a baby, it would be Keith and he should land near both.

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snappycow
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:48 am

brokenchicken wrote:
Lily will drop some due to overbuying, but she won't drop to Dream Breaker levels just because she's by far the best 5* in this batch. You can compare her to Victoria with higher stats or Bernhard plus Knockback, and since both Victoria and Bernhard are rated well, Lily will be right up there. As noted, she's a little below Werewolf, but she should be given ease of acquisition.

Melissa is the one who's a Sonia analogue; a little slower, very slightly higher stats. Not awful but not great either.

Claude is not very impressive. Gremory was disappointing for her rare-reward status; Claude is Gremory minus ten thousand in stats. If anyone drops to 30-50 TE levels from this batch, he will.

Seth is quite close to Saki all-around and will likely tier similarly.

Among Area Attack 4 units, Guy has the best total stats, the best ground attack and a spectacular 200 range. Slow as molasses, though.

Finally, Keith. Take Agnes, slow her down to C, give her a tiny air attack and a sex change. If Agnes and Anton had a baby, it would be Keith and he should land near both.


I'd say that's quite spot on Very Happy
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whitehayate



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:46 pm

What about arrebol? I got my hands on 1 hoping his price will rise because of the rarity, but i honestly have no clue at his stats or possible tier ranking.
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brokenchicken
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:46 pm

Well, let's do some comparing against A-list missile 5*s.

Arrebol:
5* / Missile / 30 / D / 175 / no skill
51500 / 38700 / 33450 // 123650

Sheryl:
5* / Missile / 25 / C / 175 / no skill
28500 / 51500 / 33700 // 113700

Rose:
5* / Missile / 15 / C / 150 / no skill
36250 / 38800 / 35240 // 110290

Joachim:
5* / Missile / 30 / D / 175 / Knockback 5
38175 / 51500 / 25850 // 115525

Arrebol is very comparable to Sheryl, who is a top-tier missile unit. Both have one huge-damage attack and two strong ones, excellent range, a high deploy cost and no special skill. Arrebol gains 10K stats but loses a speed class, for which he'll be docked slightly but is by no means a deal-breaker.

Compared to Rose, he's more expensive to deploy and slower but otherwise matches or beats Rose across the board.

Joachim is nearly stat-for-stat with Arrebol (a touch lower against Sea) and adds Knockback 5. That alone puts Arrebol in second place, but then again Joachim is my favorite unit in the game.

Add that to the rarity factor and it's pretty safe to say Arrebol should be a very valuable asset.
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whitehayate



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:25 pm

brokenchicken wrote:
Well, let's do some comparing against A-list missile 5*s.

Arrebol:
5* / Missile / 30 / D / 175 / no skill
51500 / 38700 / 33450 // 123650

Sheryl:
5* / Missile / 25 / C / 175 / no skill
28500 / 51500 / 33700 // 113700

Rose:
5* / Missile / 15 / C / 150 / no skill
36250 / 38800 / 35240 // 110290

Joachim:
5* / Missile / 30 / D / 175 / Knockback 5
38175 / 51500 / 25850 // 115525

Arrebol is very comparable to Sheryl, who is a top-tier missile unit. Both have one huge-damage attack and two strong ones, excellent range, a high deploy cost and no special skill. Arrebol gains 10K stats but loses a speed class, for which he'll be docked slightly but is by no means a deal-breaker.

Compared to Rose, he's more expensive to deploy and slower but otherwise matches or beats Rose across the board.

Joachim is nearly stat-for-stat with Arrebol (a touch lower against Sea) and adds Knockback 5. That alone puts Arrebol in second place, but then again Joachim is my favorite unit in the game.

Add that to the rarity factor and it's pretty safe to say Arrebol should be a very valuable asset.
Thank you! Thats great to know that i didnt over pay for a actually decent unit.
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nijian84



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:04 am

Where does new 6* FM unit, Seth, fall under 6* Tier? Anywhere? :S
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nijian84



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:01 am

I'm guessing MAYBE... Tier 2-3... lower end of the Tier 2 at best?
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brokenchicken
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:13 pm

Here's my closest analogy:

Seth:
6* / Missile / 30 / D / 150 / Slow 6
76220 / 89360 / 49975 // 215555

Saki:
6* / Missile / 25 / D / 150 / Slow 6
82790 / 76220 / 56580 // 215590

Virtually identical overall. Ground and Air are generally more useful than Sea, so a slight nod to Seth there due to better Air numbers, but a slightly higher Deploy.

Among Missile units, the next highest rated is:

Anastasia:
6* / Missile / 20 / D / 150 / Slow 6
92313 / 72620 / 59480 // 224413

Higher stats + higher ground attack + lower deploy == higher in the ranks.

So figure near Saki and below Ana in Tier 2.
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predator852
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:10 pm

Hats off to broken chicken

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Br4dford
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:05 pm

Bump with the hope of Updates ???
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kingdragon



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:59 pm

where re ww and lilly in this list
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Evageek
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:15 pm


They haven't updated since DB units, I think.
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brokenchicken
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:43 pm

Awright, awright...

I don't have the Officially Approved Formula, and that's as much opinion as what I'm coming up with anyway, so grains of salt all around.

Werewolf is as close as a melee unit has come to cracking Tier 1 and is certainly at the top of the Melee 5* list. High deploy cost, but she's Sofia with Knockback and better stats, Victoria with much better stats, or Bernhard with Knockback, better stats and better balance.

Lily I covered on page 6. Her luster has faded slightly now that Full Metal's event is over, but she's still very very good. She's basically an improved Victoria, and look where Victoria is -- right at the top of Tier 2. Werewolf's balance puts her over Lily by a little bit.

Now let's look at some Crime Fighters...

Dana:
6* / Missile / 25 / C / 175 / Knockback 6
69598 / 79488 / 76150 // 225236

That right there is a REALLY good unit. Compare her to the top of the heap:

Oktavia:
6* / Missile / 30 / C / 175 / Knockback 6
66400 / 89360 / 79505 // 235265

Nina:
6* / Missile / 15 / C / 175 / Knockback 6
66505 / 79575 / 63800 // 209880

Statwise, she slots in right between those two, with the same decent speed and long range. Obviously, Nina has a lower deploy to consider in future events, but since Dana gets bonuses in this one she's an absolute no-brainer.
-*-
Eleanor:
5* / Magic / 15 / D / 150 / Slow 5
27925 / 27925 / 30050 // 85900

Comparable to:
Stefan:
5* / Magic / 15 / D / 150 / Slow 5
31150 / 33750 / 30075 // 94975

Stefan is a solid Tier 2. Aleister and Mihiro are also in that range with Slow 5 and slightly better stats. Eleanor isn't anything to turn down with the Den of Sin bonuses, but she'll go a bit cheaper once that's over.

-*-

Diane:
5* / Missile / 30 / D / 175 / Knockback 5
33700 / 46400 / 36250 // 116350

Very solid. Compare her to:

Joachim:
5* / Missile / 30 / D / 175 / Knockback 5
38175 / 51500 / 25850 // 115525

Nobody's kicking Joachim out of Tier 1 any time soon, and that puts Diane in good company. Stat totals are similar but Joachim gets an advantage in the better categories (Sea isn't as valuable outside of Arenas). Still, a Joachim with an event bonus? Grab her now if you can.

-*-

Antony:
4* / Melee / 30 / C / 130 / None
31,728 / 15,436 / 27,693 // 74,857

Frank:
4* / Missile / 20 / C / 175 / Poison Lv 4
16,249 / 19,490 / 12,226 // 47,965

Neither one leaps out at me as a must-have after this event. Antony has good attack stats but no skill and a huge 30 deploy cost for a 4* -- Dhim is similarly strong and ten points cheaper. Frank has good range but that won't apply in the event; if you have a Furfur, she saves you ten points and has better stats. With the Den of Sin bonuses added in, I won't say no to either, but you can probably build a perfectly good team without them.

That's enough for one post; rank awards next.
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brokenchicken
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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:19 pm

Den of Sin awards:

Let's face it, if you've got the resources to place in the top 100 you don't need my help, but we might as well rank 'em anyway.

Marybell:
6* / Melee / 30 / B / 130 / Poison 6
76063 / 49713 / 53155 // 178931

The speed is good, the skill is good, the rest is... ehh. Definitely falls below Cecelia, who's on the bottom half of Tier 2. Comparable to Diana, who has similar stats but one class higher speed.

Charles:
5* / Magic / 25 / D / 150 / Area Attack 5
35350 / 33800 / 33200 // 102350

The strongest AE5 unit in the game in terms of total stats and balance. Slow, but recommended.

Catherine:
5* / Missile / 15 / D / 150 / Poison 5
31150 / 23425 / 30100 // 84675

Comparable to:

Franziska:
5* / Missile / 20 / C / 150 / Poison 5
32100 / 24950 / 27000 // 84050

Structurally similar, slipping behind Franz a bit because of a Sea tilt to her stats and lower speed.

And the 4*s:
Violet: Pretty similar to Gloria, with better Ground/Air balance.
Cats: Estlin with a speed bump-up. Samantha's still the best of the Slow 4s.
Montague: Only current comparison is to Angela -- he's slower but can at least touch Air.
Romanovich: Keith-ish. Higher deploy, slightly lower stats, but still a KB4 that can hit Air and has good Ground numbers.



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PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]   Today at 11:05 pm

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