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 arena skills

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KuroNeko
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PostSubject: arena skills   Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:00 am

guys im looking for arena units, but what skill combo's  are good ?
there qute some arena/skill magic/melee/missle combo's so dont know whats decent
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alexterrier92



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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:11 am

ironwall+speed order is a nice combination

mayb ironwall+ def order
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TheRain7



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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:57 pm

Things have been changing with all the new skills introduced.

It's slightly more diverse now... Iron wall has become a lot less useful at the higher levels of competition. Because Iron Wall only blocks damage and not the skill effect.

For example getting hit by Nerve Strike disables Iron Wall for the next 9 turns... and since IW units have lower HP, they will die quickly.

Incinerate is OP as hell, it's almost instant death (think: 6* incinerate takes out 63% of the unit's total HP over the next 7 turns)

Some people like Snipe to take out the low level event unit in the back...

Point is... I've been seeing a move away from stacking IW. Going back to just using sheer numbers like high HP/high damage, combined with 2-3 units with the OP skills, plus speed order/slow (units with slow tend to have high HP too)


Regarding Melee/Missile/Magic... unfortunately Fanta doesn't know **** about game balance so Missile/Magic units ALL have low HP and slow speed, meanwhile NOT having high damage to compensate sooooo... unless they have a useful skill that fits your setup, they're just not as useful >: so many cute but useless cards
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KuroNeko
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:23 pm

so what about skills like double attack, blink, critical shot?

so if Incinerate is rly hat good, i should get an flores, since its kb/inci melee
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Vaati
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:36 pm

Critical Shot depends on the unit. Having it on a 15 DC unit will make her usefull with offensive teams, as she can sometimes compensate her low damage output.

Double attack is the counter against IW units, and so are its better versions (from tripple to quadra attack). Saddly, if they meet a unit with blink, their combo can be finished before the expected end.

Blink is awesome against teams with lots of mellee units, as blink can sometimes negate the mellee attacks and slow the unit considerably. Missile and Magic units are not affected by the skill however. Also, so far only missile/magic units possess the skill, and they normally have below-the-average HP.
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Minowara
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:34 pm

The way I look at it:

Good:  Incinerate, Crit Shot, Slow, Speed Order, Double-Penta attack, Defense Order, Area Attack

Neutral: Iron Wall, Knockback

Bad:  Drain, Nerve Strike, Backstab, Snipe, Blink, Stone Breath, Poison

Riposte is not listed because I still have no clue what it actually does.  These are my impressions, and Iron Wall may be amazing on Arthur, but at least so far IW tends to drop a unit's HP.

I really only play in the 7*'s and top 6* unit range, so my most desired skill is crit shot by far. 250% damage (for 7*) is just too good.
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KuroNeko
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:21 am

well problem is im not a power player like most of you, and i cant afort to use real money so i have to play with lower grade cards, i just want to create a balanced team so i can atleast get some ranks in this game and sell the cards for te/pot so i can save up alot for  good cards

for now check my list and see what i have atm , tell me what to sell and to keep for now, and howto create a balanced team with the currents, also i mifgt be able to affort a new unit, i was planning to swap paris for ami, but ami arena skill suck so i dont know if i would get her in place of paris, paris is 30dc man it's to lot
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UkyoSonoda
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:13 am

Minowara wrote:
The way I look at it:

Good:  Incinerate, Crit Shot, Slow, Speed Order, Double-Penta attack, Defense Order, Area Attack

Neutral: Iron Wall, Knockback

Bad:  Drain, Nerve Strike, Backstab, Snipe, Blink, Stone Breath, Poison

Riposte is not listed because I still have no clue what it actually does.  These are my impressions, and Iron Wall may be amazing on Arthur, but at least so far IW tends to drop a unit's HP.

I really only play in the 7*'s and top 6* unit range, so my most desired skill is crit shot by far.  250% damage (for 7*) is just too good.

Agree on most but I would rate Poison and Blink on Neutral and Stone Breath on Good. Reason is a very large amount of players still run full melee teams that are all the same range block. Because of this 1 stone breath proc can freeze their entire team. A blink unit can negate like an IW unit. etc. The reason I move poison to neutral is it can help kill off bulky units faster especially stacked with incinerate. It also causes double-penta attack units that people like using to implode on their skill activations.
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Minowara
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:35 am

RE Stone Breath, I guess I just don't like that the freeze replaces damage dealt. You give an ideal scenario, and in that scenario, yes it is awesome. But when it only hits 1 unit, which will occur quite a bit, I just traded my attack for their attack, and I'm no better off.
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Ghent96



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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:05 pm

True: area attack does dmg to all enemy units at the same time, with just 1 attack turn.
Also True: if this is not a fatal blow, all enemy units still remain to strike back at you.

My conclusion: area attack is bad, unless your whole team has it, and are able to strike first/early (fast speeds, low attack delays).
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Minowara
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:08 pm

I disagree Ghent, and here is why:

Before I start though, please note that area attack only hits all units in the frontmost row with an alive unit.  So a 2-2-1 AA hit will hit the front two, and once those two are dead it will hit the next two.

Now, AA deals normal damage to all units in the foremost row for the price of 1 action.  AA units are typically a little slower to make up for this.  However, if you hit 1 unit, then it is just like a normal attack.  If you hit 2 units, it is like 200% damage, 3 units is 300% damage, and so on.  Yes, you are damaging units that are not the front units, and yes, most often it will not kill the other units damaged.  However, it is less hits that need to be done on those units when they become the front unit, so I still find it worthwhile.  It always hits tank or tank+, so any additional units hit is all bonus as far as I am concerned.

The point that you are mentioning though, that it will not kill them, is why I do not like Snipe and Backstab.  A hit (even if with more damage) on a unit that is 3rd or 4th or 5th in line is not that useful.  I want to kill the person first in line as soon as possible, and then kill the next as soon as possible so that they do not hit me back.  AA effectively does this, because you have the potential to get a free hit on your next target.

I will give you that there are other better skills than AA, but I still consider AA to be above-neutral because it's the potential for +dmg that will help me eliminate their team faster by the time the battle is done.
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UkyoSonoda
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:57 pm

The other thing with AA units aside from slow speed is many also have low attack power to offset the potential gain from their AA proc.
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Minowara
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:25 pm

That used to be more true than it is today. Units like Evangeline and Christine are breaking that mold. The only thing that hasn't caught up yet is speed though.
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PangCY
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:12 am

Quote :
Regarding Melee/Missile/Magic... unfortunately Fanta doesn't know **** about game balance so Missile/Magic units ALL have low HP and slow speed, meanwhile NOT having high damage to compensate sooooo... unless they have a useful skill that fits your setup, they're just not as useful >: so many cute but useless card

yes, i know Fanta players dont like missile and magic.

i wonder if anyone had found that Fanta was start balancing the PvP to push player not to focus on only-melee-unit team after GA3.

the most significant evidence was: alot new units with arena skill after GA3, for example:

- Aria, Shade with blink
- Lavinia with incinerate
- Tiara 6*, JoL with CS
- Rachel with DO
and many more

there were more new (missile and magic) unit than melee with arena skill in each event reward after GA3.

although missile and magic unit had overall lower hp than melee, but those arena skill can counter those melee easily. they also come with higher damage output than melee units.
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loniguseze
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:23 am

KuroNeko wrote:
guys im looking for arena units, but what skill combo's  are good ?
there qute some arena/skill magic/melee/missle combo's so dont know whats decent

As a free player with bad units you shouldnt rly care about arena units since you have no chance anyway to compete for anything worth the investment tbh. Rewards for Guild wars in terms of 6* are trash barely worth anything. Solo BA (battle arenas) are gone so the only real use of arena units is GW. 30 battles, sacrificing sleep (especially if you are EU time zone where 1 battle is at late night and two other very early morning) is not really worth the few TE you get from selling the 6* reward.

My advice I can give (and oh boy you got alot advices which you anyway ignored in the past) is to be active and collect the freebies from events and roulette. Ive collected like 180 TEp during the Dice event few weeks ago which helped me rank on position 23 during the last Coloseum.
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Vaati
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:11 am

Or collect pots to recover from your latest endeavors. I've recovered around half of the pots i've used on the Royal Trouble event from the Roll the Dice event.

If you're an european and value your sleep, i'd advise you to get at least the 15 participation rewards. This bulk is what will help you. The latter 20 battle rewards consist mainly of goddesses, which you can win with some ease on other events. You can bypass these unless you're low on them, or have some extra time in your week to collect them.
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xfalconhunterx
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:04 am

Stone Breath: Great if you're deployed MID row. LOTS of teams seem to like using melee units with all the same range - this means Stone Breath is crippling. No damage, true, but it shuts down the entire line. Incinerate is best in this combo, as it works no matter what. Poison is bad with this because Poison only works when the unit's turn comes up. I prefer to use Belfort if I'm using Stone Breath as she's the lowest DC 6* with it.

Incinerate: If it procs (activates), it deals damage each turn - not just that unit's turn (which is how Poison damages.) It's absurd. Flores and Lavinia are good for this. FLores for speed, Lavinia for DC and range.

Riposte: Unknown, and only Payne has it. I have one MLB'd so we'll see. Expected to be a Blink-like effect.

Iron Wall: Lots of downplay on this one, but I still use it. Aksana is 110 range and B SPD, so she's my go-to. Gets around the issues that most everyone else is complaining about with Baldomero (the all-star IW unit.) I have yet to see a Nerve Strike proc and override Iron Wall when using Aksana in mid-row.

Defense Order: First time to use it on a non-Urd unit, so we'll see. In the past, DO from Urd (7*) REALLY made a difference. I expect Rachel will be an all-star as a result for me.

Nerve Strike: Meh. After thought that rarely makes an impact. It's there. That's about all I can say.

Double/Triple/Quatra/Penta Attack: Varies by unit, but Quatra/Penta seem to be the most effective. A good filler if you need it, but not a focus. Higher damage total if it procs.

Blink: More of an annoyance than a useful skill. It's single-attack Iron Wall + Slow, but little more. Have yet to see this implemented in a way that makes an impact, even in non-competitive teams.

Atk Boost: This one is silly in GB, as it ignores the unit restrictions (Male, Female, Palace Guard.) Camille is the best for this as his 50% boost applies to all units in Arena, despite what his card says.

Speed Order: If this is on your event unit, great. Otherwise, don't go out of your way to include it. It's okay, but there's so much variation and randomness that it's hard to justify using it intentionally.

Critical Shot: Great on Vert and established 6* and 7* units. Packs a punch if it hits - the stronger the unit using it, the stronger it hits. Looking forward to seeing Durandal proc.

Determine your role and your overall guild goal. Once you know that, you know what units to use.

Defender: Deploy front row with your strongest possible units. Spam potions and tonic to heal. Your only goal is to stop the attacking force.

Attacker: Deploy Mid and go skill heavy. Use your strongest and most effective units. Spam attacking.

Other: Attack, defend, but mostly, do cannons. Deploy back row and farm cannon parts and shots exclusively. Any units you deploy should be very tanky (lots of HP) like Eurydike, Gideon, Reinhard, etc.
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xfalconhunterx
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:09 am

PangCY wrote:
Quote :
Regarding Melee/Missile/Magic... unfortunately Fanta doesn't know **** about game balance so Missile/Magic units ALL have low HP and slow speed, meanwhile NOT having high damage to compensate sooooo... unless they have a useful skill that fits your setup, they're just not as useful >: so many cute but useless card

yes, i know Fanta players dont like missile and magic.

This is EXACTLY why Stone Breath is still viable and useful.

Nothing makes my day more than seeing a defending line of Colbert + Baldomero + Charles + Charles + Charles. One hit from Stone Breath and they're stuck. And when deployed MID row, Stone Breath procs regularly.
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Ghent96



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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:27 pm

When you refer to deploying MID, or front row... do you mean the order within a player's own lineup, or on the actual deploy screen for the whole guild? I don't see why a defender would ever want to deploy in the front, and lose the skill and defense boosts compared to MID or Back. An attacker should deploy in the Front to gain atk boost, for faster kills and more GP, no? You want your active, healing defender deployed in the back, and not farming cannon (because you disappear from the battle screen and won't "catch" attackers while you're farming).
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Roanmarvel
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:44 pm

The top left position still gets attack disproportionately more than other positions, so that might be part of it.

When I was 1-man troll defending last GW that's where I went, and believe me, I had to spam so fast just to keep fresh cannon fodder available.

Supposedly which location you attack was made totally random a few GW's ago, so it's possible they'll finally fix this for next GW.
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Minowara
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:27 pm

TheRain7 wrote:


Regarding Melee/Missile/Magic... unfortunately Fanta doesn't know **** about game balance so Missile/Magic units ALL have low HP and slow speed, meanwhile NOT having high damage to compensate sooooo... unless they have a useful skill that fits your setup, they're just not as useful >: so many cute but useless cards

This has been quoted quite a bit lately and it's really not true. With the exception of tanks, you have melee and missile units with as much hp as their melee counterparts. Also, the speeds can be close. Melee is B-C with mostly C, and the rest are C-D with I'd say half and half between C and D.

Examples:

Stiria - 900k hp, C speed missile
Alma - 925k hp C speed mage
Magdalena - 838k hp C speed mage

Anemone - 817k hp C speed melee
Elizabeth - 775k hp C speed melee
Loanne - 842k hp, B speed melee

As you can see, non-melee units can and oftentimes do have just as much hp and speed as melee units.
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UkyoSonoda
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:35 pm

Minowara wrote:
TheRain7 wrote:


Regarding Melee/Missile/Magic... unfortunately Fanta doesn't know **** about game balance so Missile/Magic units ALL have low HP and slow speed, meanwhile NOT having high damage to compensate sooooo... unless they have a useful skill that fits your setup, they're just not as useful >: so many cute but useless cards

This has been quoted quite a bit lately and it's really not true.  With the exception of tanks, you have melee and missile units with as much hp as their melee counterparts.  Also, the speeds can be close.  Melee is B-C with mostly C, and the rest are C-D with I'd say half and half between C and D.

Examples:

Stiria - 900k hp, C speed missile
Alma - 925k hp C speed mage
Magdalena - 838k hp C speed mage

Anemone - 817k hp C speed melee
Elizabeth - 775k hp C speed melee
Loanne - 842k hp, B speed melee

As you can see, non-melee units can and oftentimes do have just as much hp and speed as melee units.

Thats good an all when it comes to 7*'s Keep in mind a majority of players don't have 7* units.

How many 6* missile/magic units have HP totals in that range figuring there is a fair amount of melee 6* with comparable HP totals or possibly higher in some cases?
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TheRain7



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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:49 pm

Minowara wrote:
TheRain7 wrote:


Regarding Melee/Missile/Magic... unfortunately Fanta doesn't know **** about game balance so Missile/Magic units ALL have low HP and slow speed, meanwhile NOT having high damage to compensate sooooo... unless they have a useful skill that fits your setup, they're just not as useful >: so many cute but useless cards

This has been quoted quite a bit lately and it's really not true.  With the exception of tanks, you have melee and missile units with as much hp as their melee counterparts.  Also, the speeds can be close.  Melee is B-C with mostly C, and the rest are C-D with I'd say half and half between C and D.

Examples:

Stiria - 900k hp, C speed missile
Alma - 925k hp C speed mage
Magdalena - 838k hp C speed mage

Anemone - 817k hp C speed melee
Elizabeth - 775k hp C speed melee
Loanne - 842k hp, B speed melee

As you can see, non-melee units can and oftentimes do have just as much hp and speed as melee units.

I guess they're finally putting some effort to introduce some semblance of balance with the introduction of 7*s...

But if you are running a full 7* team you shouldn't need to be here reading my advise.

What I said is based on 6* stats, where the majority of semi-competitive players are at:

Melee are in the 600-900k range, B speed is more common place than C, with a rare D (only Vlad and Georgios)

While missile/magic are as low as 350-500k, and D speed is the majority for mages (C speed magics only started happening after Magnus), and missile is ~~50/50 C or D.
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Minowara
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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:04 am

Fair point.
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Ghent96



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PostSubject: Re: arena skills   Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:38 pm

...How about we all just gang up and finally force Fanta to release ALL the unit stats, like HP, rather than forcing us to calculate and guess... ?
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