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 My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)

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LuziMiazawa
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PostSubject: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:13 am

I've to say this. I just feel like it and I think some people may bash me around, but I know I'm not the only one. A lot of people in-game are adoring Fantasitrade as the only PC site ever, so actual in-game prices are irrelevant to some. As long Fantasitrade has XY price stated, that's the price for a Unit...

I happened to see that very often and it saddens me. So, if someone drops a price on Fantasitrade, a lot of people usually refer to that as the "real" PC of a unit, like of very rare Units.

Usually I see a lot of arguements about this among a lot of people, because a lot, as I am one of them, get's annoyed by those people using Fantasitrade as the ultimate PC site...

What do you think about that?

I've nothing against Fantasitrade. Yes, usually I sell lower then other ppl do, but that's me and I only say MY PC of a Unit I sell and NEVER say it's the ultimate PC of all Units, but not like some people that literally see Fantasitrade as their PC god...

A lot of people are also using Fantasitrade to drop a Unit's price OR raise it... I talked often to some who were "selling" Units for a lot less then the market price and when I asked them, they told me it's just a imposter to drag down the price and they'll sell for more then they posted on Fantasitrade.

I know that Fantasitrade makes it easier to sell, sometimes, but it angers me that a lot of people see it as the ultimate PC site of every single Unit...


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PangCY
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:30 pm

I already get used to it while someone try to low ball my MitraM for a Epimeleia (less than 50 at that time)

What I would said, you shouldn't sell the card while everyone low ball it. You should have a border line that how low it should go; never sell if it go lower

My MitraM got me a Chandelle at the end after 2 weeks of reject low ball. It worth more than 140 TE

But you need patience to get the right buyer
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xbLux
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:22 pm

Can you really blame them?

FT is too convenient and easy to look up prices. Due to this, it will become the defacto PC engine to many.

What search engine do you use an why? I bet many will say Google and because it so easy and reliable to use.

Same thing here with FT.
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LuziMiazawa
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:38 pm

PangCY: I usually have no problems with that, but I see a lot of people getting in fights, because of this. That's actually my point. I'm patient enough, but a lot of ppl get in fights with each other.

xbLux: Well, that may be so, but often some ppl keep Fantasitrade as their PC site and can't sell a unit at all, because everyone just overprices it on Fantasitrade XD Seen often enuff of the hardcore lowballing, because of one price.

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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:45 am

Which is why I hate these kind of 'idiots' worshipping FT like some god




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Vaati
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:40 am

Hmm, thinking about this issue then.

Fantasitrade is the only general website with easy access to prices in the internet that players can use. Most veterans remember Fantasica Trading, which had a solid and controlled way of stating the card values. But it eventually ended due to the creator's unability to keep up with all the statistics of both new cards and the other's prices shifting. Fantasica is a small market teeming with cards, prices rising and declining as rarity and reprints come up , so ofc it was hard for only one person to keep an eye on an ever-increasing collection of goods.

I'm not disregarding players who have knowledge about prices, but there are players which either age, culture, education or other aspects of life will limit their inteligence, so if there's an easy website to follow the prices, then that's what they'll look up, even if they do not notice at first that the price ranges can be changed by players at will, either with honesty of fraud on their minds. I don't blame players who "treat fantasitrade as a god", as they're the weakest of all in the community, probably with no sense of economy and that hug the website as their only safe harbor (unless they're decieving others from the start).

What we need is an authority to establish card prices, or even rules. Limit of 100 TE for LE 6* and one-time prints, 20% reduction per reprint, bonuses for stat combos like "B+Slow+20DC" - suggestions like these would help guide players in trades, and hinder scammers/evil-low-ballers from reduce them.

This is what i think, at least. Interpret my words with a grain of salt, please.

Also, the price check /trade advice thread is a good tool too, but it's dependent on whoever has time to reply to the questions there, and said person's wisdom about the cards at hand.
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memphiskite
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:36 pm

Prices rise? That sounds shifty enough to me...
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Resetz



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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:17 pm

Fantasica trade is very easy to use and cross link to wiki for card detail.
I usually go on look for general pricing of the unit, try to find a reputation players like nervvie69, paveljevs, etc for the value.

but in the end is what I want to buy it for or sell it for matter. If I want to sell Alexander for 50 I will not care what other people tell me that is not the price.
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:09 pm

Resetz wrote:
Fantasica trade is very easy to use and cross link to wiki for card detail.
I usually go on look for general pricing of the unit, try to find a reputation players like nervvie69, paveljevs, etc for the value.

but in the end is what I want to buy it for or sell it for matter. If I want to sell Alexander for 50 I will not care what other people tell me that is not the price.

Indeed, and if there is a demand, there is a price. Razz
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Ghent96



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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:17 pm

Well... glad to see I got people talking and thinking about economics Smile Thanks for the publicity...

I see nothing wrong with my posts, other than I was obviously mad already at the other guy for "clearing" my wall with his spam over my pricing of Alexander.... ironically ^ There was a buyer, I wanted more, he wanted less. It is on loan from an ally who has a firm price. Meh. I still have Alexander and am happy using him and max'ing him in level.

On Fantasitrade, it's much more accurate and reliable _IF/WHEN_ you know how to use it properly, versus asking on a couple walls in-game where an ally is biased towards you, or helping con someone. Fantasitrade is also much faster than in-game, where someone may not be or may be grinding quests or in a GW. I can load it, search, see a Card *, deploy cost, arena dmg, art (hotness costs extra), look on fantasica wiki, see if LE or not, average out the Sell prices over past couple weeks, average out BUY prices the past few weeks, average the two, deduct 10-20% for the obvious overpricing and I have a pretty darn accurate price to start negotiations with someone. Much better than guessing in-game or gouging my eyes out watching endless, laggy auctions.

Fantasitrade allows extrapolation of price trends, and while I don't bust out a spreadsheet or anything, I do eyeball the trend. In-game, there is no record, huge price flux depending on auction or regular sale, biased allies, cons, scams. Just imo, less reliable, as I hope you can understand after objectively reading this.
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Roanmarvel
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:05 am

I'm wondering where you're getting the sales history on fantasica.

A lot of people just change the price to 'sold' or 'reserved' when they make a deal. A few do move them to the sold tab, but afaik that's only visible on the individual seller's page.

So unless you mean, you're cheking the list prices for the past few days, then it's frankly unreliable data as a lot of sellers literally repost the same thing at the same price day after day.

Anyways, ftrade is a pretty useful site to see what's out there, but I don't think I've ever actually paid what the 'low' offer on ftrade was (let alone the average asking price).
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PangCY
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:49 am

for me, i will never look on the top 5 with lowest price. those might not be the real price and can be manipulated by multiple alt account from same guys.

hence, i only check on the mid range price to have some reference and set my own price.
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KuroStar
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:52 am

Ghent96 wrote:
Well... glad to see I got people talking and thinking about economics Smile Thanks for the publicity...

I see nothing wrong with my posts, other than I was obviously mad already at the other guy for "clearing" my wall with his spam over my pricing of Alexander.... ironically ^  There was a buyer, I wanted more, he wanted less.  It is on loan from an ally who has a firm price. Meh.  I still have Alexander and am happy using him and max'ing him in level.

On Fantasitrade, it's much more accurate and reliable _IF/WHEN_ you know how to use it properly, versus asking on a couple walls in-game where an ally is biased towards you, or helping con someone.  Fantasitrade is also much faster than in-game, where someone may not be or may be grinding quests or in a GW.  I can load it, search, see a Card *, deploy cost, arena dmg, art (hotness costs extra), look on fantasica wiki, see if LE or not, average out the Sell prices over past couple weeks, average out BUY prices the past few weeks, average the two, deduct 10-20% for the obvious overpricing and I have a pretty darn accurate price to start negotiations with someone.  Much better than guessing in-game or gouging my eyes out watching endless, laggy auctions.

Fantasitrade allows extrapolation of price trends, and while I don't bust out a spreadsheet or anything, I do eyeball the trend.  In-game, there is no record, huge price flux depending on auction or regular sale, biased allies, cons, scams.  Just imo, less reliable, as I hope you can understand after objectively reading this.

The tone of that posts makes you sound more superior, which I find it really annoying and irritating. It would not hurt to be nicer, in fact, it makes the game more enjoyable. The problem I have with you is that you behave like some GM or god, you don't even RESPECT other people's views on prices of units.

You even told us to prove it that Alexander is not worth @13 during that auction, when clearly most of the community agreed that it wasn't worth that much. Plus, nobody supported your view  or even agreed with it.

The problem I have with you is your attitude and behaviour and the posts I have 'drowned your wall' (I got no idea why do you have to exaggerate this until it is that serious) seem to come to naught when I see this post now.

Here's why I think Fantasitrade is a bit more (and not completely) arbitrary than what the community thinks of the unit's worth.

1. Not all of the units that the whole community owns are on sale on Fantasitrade, there are some people who don't post their units on sale on Fantasitrade. They could have a different price than the people at Fantasitrade.

There are firesales too, which makes the price less than normal, and everyone would have an idea of the unit's base price in their minds. Not all players have the same base price for the same unit.

2. I notice some players who use Fantasitrade are spenders (like pavelijevs), which means they will definitely have excess units and have some units that they want to sell. If they have too much and have no space in the inbox, the natural reaction would be to sell it for cheaper so that they can get the TE more easily and make more space in the inbox.

3. Price history is one of the points that I have to strongly disagree because some players will put SOLD or delete it on Fantasitrade after they have sold it in-game.(Unless you compile the information of every single price every player puts on Fantasitrade) Therefore, your price history point there is totally invalid.

There, I said my peace. I'm not going to bother about the trend of the price there because the source of the decrease or increase in price is Mobage. It cannot be ultimately decided by the community because the supply and demand of tradable TE and Potions also matters.

Fantasitrade is a good site since searching for a particular unit in the Trading Center in the forums is a bit tedious with the no. of units in Fantasica now.

With Fantasitrade, its much more easier to find the units to buy or sell now.

As for the prices, I don't blame you for leaning onto the prices of the units in Fantasitrade (In fact, Alexander is worth @13 there but honestly, it will go down very soon). I do understand why you want a fair market but I just hate it when you don't respect other people's views.

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xfalconhunterx
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:56 pm

I'll chime in here:

Fantasitrade is great for getting an "idea" regarding card values. Usually, I look at the ftrade listed price, and offer 20% less. If they don't take it, I don't bash 'em or piss and moan, I just move along. By that same token I list my units for REAL value - this usually means my listings are 20% less than the other listings around me.

Things like f5*'s for god sets instead of TE prices has earned me lots of buyers.

Now - is it possible that people are buying my units and flipping them for a higher price? Absolutely. But they're wasting all of their time doing that work while I move cards that are doing nothing more than clogging up my inbox and not moving at all. I get resources I can use and they can do all of the hard work trying to squeeze blood from stone (flipping 5*'s for 2-5TE/pots.)

Fact is, most players have god sets and LOTS of players BUY god sets for Pure. I'm just making the cards accessible to the free player for a resource that they have while adding popular inventory to my inbox that will move MUCH faster than a herd of unused f5*'s.

If anyone flames you for not adhering to Ftrade values, ignore them. Hell, blacklist them. What you'll find in the chat attached to ftrade is a group of savvy players that advocate the same approach and values that you do here, not what's posted on ftrade walls.

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outlawauron



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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:41 pm

I use it because most people greatly overvalue their cards, and I was burnt as a new one who didn't know better.
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Arballest
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:01 am

I think you can't avoid market price competition and some alien-humans.
IMO, just sell your units with your own price and it's not a bad idea to adjust the PC from Fantasitrade because it is a good site for searching unit price. I don't say that Fantasitrade is the best site for PC, you may find the lower or higher price in the other places such as forum, fantasica trade wall, etc. Everyone have their OWN RIGHT to sell with their desired price and their OWN PC.

and a little advice for Luzi : it is only about perspective, we can't blame some ppl for their PC source. And we don't have any rights to blame them either. Just enjoy the game and ignore the barking dogs in your wall or any messages you have received. Don't hit them so they won't bites, just let them barking until they tired. ^^
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:31 am

Fantasitrade is a big massive website for price comparison, it's natural for people to find the cheapest of the lot. Naturally you want to buy low and sell high. With Fantasitrade, everything comes up too conveniently so everyone has to keep dropping the price until no one has them anymore or no one wants to drop it lower. Personally I don't like it much either, but it's something we have to take in I guess.

Though the website can be quite abusable. Like putting up a sold unit. e.g. Like errr, "Lilith 100TE SOLD" HURHURHURHURHUR. and then just leaving it there to annoy people X:

"I used to be a merchant like you, then we took a FantasiTrade to the Fantasica" - SnowTempest
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PangCY
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:33 pm

outlawauron wrote:
I use it because most people greatly overvalue their cards, and I was burnt as a new one who didn't know better.

sometimes, it was the buyer low ball the other.

to be honest, MLB a 6* almost cost 12-15TE (feeder, ambrosia, goddess).

and somehow buyer ask for 10 TE on a MLB Alex; the seller has to suffer the lose on MLB.

sure, some buyers were calling sellers overvalue those cards. but, in term of business view, will you prefer nearly no/min profit? OR a lost in deal?
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:23 pm

Its funnier when you get sellers quoting ftrade for a price and when you go look at the card on ftrade sure all the listings are around that price but they are all atleast 1 month old which to me means. No they arent selling at that price.
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:28 pm

Fantasitrade is pretty convenient. Easier to get ads out for rare 6* that you don't want, easier to find prices.

That said, prices there have a tendency to fluctuate quite a lot, especially before/after GW. People were trying to sell Dana (Hero) for ~45 TE before GW and didn't seem to get any sold. Immediately after GW I got an offer for 70 TE for mine.
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PangCY
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:35 am

relaystration wrote:
Fantasitrade is pretty convenient. Easier to get ads out for rare 6* that you don't want, easier to find prices.

That said, prices there have a tendency to fluctuate quite a lot, especially before/after GW. People were trying to sell Dana (Hero) for ~45 TE before GW and didn't seem to get any sold. Immediately after GW I got an offer for 70 TE for mine.

easy to explain that, everyone is preparing his team for GA. all those PvP-based units were more popular than ordinary non-pvp unit at that moment.

yet, it doesnt mean you can buy a bDiana with 500 while it was 5k all the time (for example) at that period lol

as usual, you will found those pvp units price drop after GA.
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:19 pm

I quite like ftrade... It's not perfect but it does the job. I actually thought it was much worse a few months ago when 7 stars were more opaque. People would list 7s at super high prices and then try to "fire sell" them lower...

What annoys me more is the serial card flippers in the game. I trade, but I generally trade with a purpose (round out a team, reduce my number of 7 stars, increase my number of 7 stars, buy rares or event units.) because of card flipping when people sell for cheap they normally end up selling to someone who doesn't actually want or need the card... Back when demand was in excess of supply that was fine but now that just drives down prices even more versus someone who's content to keep the card.
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u1134



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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:05 am

Swansonronald, I feel you on the serial trader aspect, but I feel that for those people, that is a major part of the fun of the game, even if they spend hours spamming rankers' walls to make 2 TE on a deal.

A personal, recent example:
I've been saving up TE for a while to buy an Edea, and this past week I realized the goal was within reach. I keep a spreadsheet of my units and from the looks of it, this prospective shiny new 7* made my Bajardo essentially redundant for GW (once I got her). The difference between the TE that I had and Bajardo's pc was enough to get one at the low end of her current pc.

Meanwhile, I had tried selling Bajardo a few weeks earlier at market price, 35. No one was buying. It was ok, I figured I'd hang onto him. Now, his average pc was a few less. I tried selling at 30 on fantasica proper and offering a combo deal with other units. I spammed rankers' walls and elsewhere (not auctions, that's rude). I listed the unit on ftrade for 1 less than the lowest price in the past week (avg pc was higher than in-game), assured that someone would nab it. It's a decent unit for GW. If it was worth 37 to me a month ago when average price was 40+, it ought to be worth 33 or so TE now to someone browsing specifically for one, right?

Nobody was buying.

I made the executive decision to sell at firesale price, 28 TE, 9 less than I got him for at an auction in early January. It sold in about 10 minutes off a ranker's wall. I made it clear that I wanted to accept TE and not other units, even though I got a substantial amount of lowball offers (Alex + 5, etc) and cards I wasn't interested in.

The person who bought it at 28 TE started spamming rankers' walls literally as soon as it was in their hands, asking for 30 (probably knowing full well how hard it was to sell at 30). Same story, about 6 hours later. Same person, selling it at the same price. I'm sure they've sold it by now, they're an avid trader.

I'm not upset about this. Not at all. It's just what happens- people prefer to spend their time in different ways, and speaks to the degree of play experience that this game can offer. If you're a wheeler-and-dealer, you can literally ONLY do that and not spend an instant on quests or events. It's up to you. I also absolutely realize that some people don't want to spend a dime on this game and want to squeeze any available profit out of anything they can because that's how they progress. Having a formidable GW team and unit lineup as a free player is a badge of honor, and rightly so. Many people worldwide simply can't afford to sink a big chunk of their money into possibly 14 4* units and a couple of event items that won't really help them see any 6*+ units.

The buying power of one time elixir has been on the rise due to a number of factors: the free units grace and selina (and the 8* in Japan) which were contributors to the market panic is one, fantasitrade, as mentioned earlier in this thread, along with its chatbox which encourages spending and ranking is another, but another still is that there are simply more good units in the game, a great many of which are unused and depreciating in value every day. The newer players who would benefit most from those units, as it would make questing and obtaining low-level rank rewards ridiculously easy as well as keep them interested in playing, can't afford them because they don't have tradeable TE and other resources like gods and feeders are similarly depreciating in value. Finally, since people realize that one TE can buy more and more as time goes on, they're holding onto it (sometimes in large, 500+ quantities like I did to buy Edea) and not allowing it to be absorbed by the market, and if they do, it's going up the chain to people who already have multiple 7*s.

One solution I can foresee, is to introduce a larger number of tradeable potions and TE into the game as lower-level event rewards to get them into players hands and increase their liquidity. I was surprised that the princess event had 6 tradeable potions at relatively low reward levels that are definitely accessible to free players without spending every waking moment of their lives on this game. I'd like to see more of that, even if it was a glitch (they were listed as Potions (P) on the princess love rewards rules page).
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Spacebug
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:16 am

^ good post. To add to the point of the buying power of te/pots, I think one of the bigger reasons is that when the game started, all te and pots were tradable. So before personal resources were introduced, tradable te and pots were there in abundance and the prices of the cards were also set in that economy environment, where tradable te and pots were much more liquid. Amounts like 50 tradable te/pots were relatively easy to obtain with a few alt accounts, and prices were reflecting that.

Since the introduction of personal te and pots, the amount of tradables have been becoming more and more scarce, so it's only natural that the demand for units is crushed because new players simply can't afford it anymore due to the lack of tradables. Less demand leads to reduced prices among other reasons, hence the state we are in today.
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Swansonronald



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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:12 am

U1334, I actually agree with you with respect to cards between say 0-200 te. It's more frustrating for 7 stars though as you then have to slog through the crappy offers of the serial traders trying to make small amounts of te and their advertising fire sale prices (which reflect the quit auctions they've bought the cards at), depresses the market.

That said I don't think there's really a scarcity of te... The problem is that the people with te (myself included) aren't really buying anything... Most are waiting for 8 stars. What also happened was that people who did events got "their fill" of 7 stars and now don't really need more for their teams. As a result they just sell the ones they get. There are not enough new rank players who want to buy big teams to offset this plus all the quitting... Oh well... Lol Smile
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PostSubject: Re: My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)   Today at 1:06 am

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My problem with some ppl + Fantasitrade(Not excatly Fantasitrade)
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